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Denmark parliament approves giant artificial island off Copenhagen

bbc.co.uk

91–100 of 139 posts

Re: Denmark parliament approves giant artificial island off Copenhagen

#91

This is some remarkably long-term planning: "If construction goes ahead as planned, the majority of the foundations for the island off Denmark's capital should be in place by 2035, with an aim to fully complete the project by 2070." I can't recall ever seeing the year 2070 or later in print, in the context of some definite project or plan. Are there other examples?

Whilst this does today seem like a long way off and a lifetime project. There have thruout history been many projects of far longer duration and some early examples would be:

https://www.archi-ninja.com/the-10-longest-construction-proj...

Which for the longest has a duration of 2,000 years for the great wall of China.

Re: Denmark parliament approves giant artificial island off Copenhagen

#92

> A case against the development of Lynetteholm has been brought before the European Court of Justice by environmental groups. I’m always a little surprised that the most wild and natural parts of world (the flyover country) is populated by anti environmentalists (or rather, libertarians typically), and the most densely populated cities devoid of most green things tend to have clusters of environmentalists. Don’t the…

I've heard some environmentalists make an argument for dense human cities. If you're going to have all those people and their infrastructure either way, compress it down and maybe you can leave more room for nature? They tend to be very anti suburbs along the same thinking.

I ended up in an argument with local "environmentalists" exactly over this (in quotes, because I think being opposed to high density is not very environmentalist at all):

They complained about new highrises near my local train station. I pointed out to them that those highrises would take up ~2,000 m^2 but provide housing for as many as one of the nearest local roads, that with the sidewalks, houses and gardens, many of which are paved over or mostly decking, takes up ~40,000 m^2.

As such, if they wanted more green spaces the better stance would be to argue for replacement rather than denying planning: E.g. make developers commit to buying up more low density housing and demolish a proportion of it and replace it with parkland or rewild it. The overall societal effect of not increasing housing supply as much would be a negative (and so there may well be needs for government incentives), but increased green spaces would be a positive. And if it reduced overall resistance to more high density construction to explicitly link density to replacement, I think it'd be worth it. E.g. award construction proposals with "points" in favour for whatever amount of existing construction they replace with parkland or nature that causes planning rules to strongly favour projects that increase density.

But said "environmentalists" seemed dead set on seeing bigger buildings as inherently bad without engaging with the point that absent getting rid of people, creating more space for nature means making people take up less space, and that means higher density.

To me arguing for high density is an essential part of environmentalism.

Re: Denmark parliament approves giant artificial island off Copenhagen

#93
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite the same, as it’s already completed, but John Malkovich made a film with Robert Rodriguez that won’t be released until 2115. 100 Years is an upcoming experimental science fiction film written by John Malkovich and directed by Robert Rodriguez. Advertised in 2015 with the tagline "The Movie You Will Never See", it is due to be released on November 18, 2115. The 100-year span matches the time it takes for a b…

That's just pomp and show business though. I think the ancients were very long term planners. One of the upsides to a regime with very centralized and absolute power. Great wall of China, Pyramids of Giza to name some.

One of my favorite would be https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petra

Which even today looks like it would take many years to produce as is.

Re: Denmark parliament approves giant artificial island off Copenhagen

#94
post #52
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of those environmentalists, strong though their convictions may be, wouldn't give up almond milk lattes, organic fusion sushi, constant social media, fast reliable internet, and all the other trappings of cosmopolitan hipster life, at least not for more than a few days.

Some of them are just nimbys who doesn't want to see new residents in their neighborood especially if they esteem that theirs propertys could be valued less.

This "neighbourhood" is currently water. I very much doubt that is the issue here.

Re: Denmark parliament approves giant artificial island off Copenhagen

#95
post #17
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could also add Sagrada Familia in Barcelona to the list, construction began in 1882 and might be done by 2032. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagrada_Fam%C3%ADlia

That wasn't the original plan though.

If we’re talking cathedral delays, Köln Cathedral was started in 1248 and finished in 1880.

Re: Denmark parliament approves giant artificial island off Copenhagen

#96

> A case against the development of Lynetteholm has been brought before the European Court of Justice by environmental groups. I’m always a little surprised that the most wild and natural parts of world (the flyover country) is populated by anti environmentalists (or rather, libertarians typically), and the most densely populated cities devoid of most green things tend to have clusters of environmentalists. Don’t the…

If only it was possible to have the kind of job and money that's only available in big cities while living there. Maybe the remote revolution will finally let this happen. Oh, and the social and cultural life as well.

Re: Denmark parliament approves giant artificial island off Copenhagen

#97
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not unusual to see such timeframes in the context of nuclear decommissioning. For example: "At around 2116, care and maintenance will end and any remaining buildings will be removed and the site returned as close as possible to its original state."[0] Also, depending on what you mean by "some definite plan", and how young you are, your pension plan may include an estimated retirement date later than 2070. [0] ht…

I think that’s about the time that interplanetary space travel starts in Star Trek. I always thought that’s way too early and the whole time should be starting 1,000 years later.

Seems like Blade Runner did even worse.

Re: Denmark parliament approves giant artificial island off Copenhagen

#98
post #11
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could be done quicker and cheaper with other means than an artificial urbanised island.

Sure but you wouldn’t get dual use out of it, need housing need a storm break why not combine them?

Because the storm break could be a relatively simple dike, a thin structure jutting out, instead of a massive artificial island.

There will be hundreds of trucks driving through Copenhagen every single day for decades, to dump the necessary dirt to construct the island. That is going to cause massive noise and disturbance problems for people living in the city, all for a prestige project that has been hastily jammed through, including a runaround on environmental regulations.

The end result will be even more unaffordable luxury apartments, which will be bought by rich investors, creating yet another dead area devoid of local culture and life, just like Ørestad and Nordhavn, where a huge number of expensive apartments sit completely empty, bought only as investment objects.

A much better alternative would be to construct a simpler storm break, and then expand Copenhagen westwards, increasing density in the suburbs and outlying areas, by predominantly building affordable apartments and ensuring good public transit coverage, to combat the current situation of students and working class people being pushed out of the city by ever-increasing housing prices.

Re: Denmark parliament approves giant artificial island off Copenhagen

#99
post #81
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is plenty of space in Denmark for its existing population (and for millions more, for that sake). The issue is that there is not that much space in Copenhagen.

I don't really understand why expansion towards West is not an option.

Because they want to sell expensive housing close to the sea, not affordable housing far from the sea.

It's a stupid prestige project, primarily designed to attract rich investors, who will let their investment object apartments sit empty, creating another dead neighborhood.

Re: Denmark parliament approves giant artificial island off Copenhagen

#100

I cant stop wondering the why its such a massive undertaking and we have plenty of land just expand on the other side i cant stop feeling that this is a prestige project with very little gain.

The article mentions it also "protects the port of Copenhagen"

But otherwise it steals value from the city and it increases the coastline.

Increasing the coastline is truly adding to society, humans value water access, but I suspect the stolen value by shifting the centre of mass of Copenhagen obfuscates it's true added worth.

It's quite different to building up or down or abstract improvements like tunnels which increase density and more clearly add more than they take.

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