The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem • Hacker News Board

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#91

Post by lancemurdock » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 7:19 PM UTC

emodendroket wrote: post #63

lancemurdock wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

car accidents account for 38K deaths a year in the US alone. If we ban cars, we'd be saving 38K lives every year. Why do people continue driving knowing this statistic? The conversations around ransomware and climate are both slippery slopes. We should be focused on better security to prevent attacks as well as facilitating more renewable energy instead of stifling innovation.

Is the claim that cryptocurrency is providing a societal benefit comparable to the automobile then?

some of the biggest plagues on society are rooted in central banking policies. If you have ever been upset at the amount of money bankers make, markets they've manipulated which resulted in tiny fines, or went bankrupt and needed bailouts which require printing money which devalues all the current dollars you own as well as not enforce any reason for them to avoid future bubbles then you might be more open to something like Bitcoin and DeFi initiatives.

Governments are no better than banks. Both right & left admins want bigger government, just in different ways. They both print money at obscene rates which is cheapening the money you have in your bank account right now.

If cryptocurrency can be a salvation from some of these problems then we should 100% be seeing if it can work.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#92

Post by thehappypm » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 7:19 PM UTC

px43 wrote: post #70

mcphage wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Should we ban shipping? Shipping is pretty useful, though. What are the other major uses for Bitcoin?

Sending money over the internet. If you don't understand why that's an critical utility for billions of people on this planet, then you're not worth arguing with.

Crypto is one tool for sending money over the internet, but it's hardly the only one, and it's far from the best. Most transaction utilities don't have potential for your transfer to lose 30% overnight.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#93

Post by thehappypm » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 7:20 PM UTC

Mc_Big_G wrote: post #65

mcphage wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Should we ban shipping? Shipping is pretty useful, though. What are the other major uses for Bitcoin?

Ask someone in a country whose currency has been debased.

Those people end up hoarding stable currencies like USD today, how is BTC any better?

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#94

Post by emodendroket » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 7:21 PM UTC

lancemurdock wrote: post #91

emodendroket wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the claim that cryptocurrency is providing a societal benefit comparable to the automobile then?

some of the biggest plagues on society are rooted in central banking policies. If you have ever been upset at the amount of money bankers make, markets they've manipulated which resulted in tiny fines, or went bankrupt and needed bailouts which require printing money which devalues all the current dollars you own as well as not enforce any reason for them to avoid future bubbles then you might be more open to somethi…

Deflationary currency would be an absolute nightmare for everyone except those lucky enough to be holding on to a lot of it before it was too valuable.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#95

Post by px43 » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 7:22 PM UTC

thehappypm wrote: post #83

px43 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, what? Ransomware existed long before cryptocurrencies. Money laundering via ACH, SWIFT, stolen credit cards, gift cards, and all sorts of online payment systems like PayPal are still huge, no cryptocurrencies required. Cryptocurrencies are used today because they're the most efficient way to make online payments, which is a net positive for everyone. It's just as easy to hunt down criminals using cryptocurrencie…

I deeply disagree that crypto is the easiest way to make online payments. Have you ever used Venmo? Or even Facebook pay? Or Zelle? Sure, it might be the easiest way to send money cross-border, but that's an edge case, the vast, vast majority of transactions are same-country.

Those aren't payments, those are custodial services that offer users the ability to move around numbers within their respective closed ecosystems. There's a reason that every one of those services is now moving heavily into the cryptocurrency space.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#96

Post by spoonjim » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 7:25 PM UTC

thehappypm wrote: post #87

spoonjim wrote: post #49

Ransomware is a gift — people are exposing insecure systems only for a few million dollars of payout. A more nefarious actor would do more nefarious things than just collect what is at the nation-state scale a very small amount of money. More ransomware will accelerate security improvements and protect systems from CCP, Five Eyes, etc.

This argument is pretty weird: ransomware is bad, but there's a potentially worse actor out there, so ransomware is good? I'd say that's like someone robbing a bank, but saying "someone else could have robbed you for more".

Yes, if someone sticks up your bank for $10 then it likely benefits you in the long run since you implement security measures for when the million dollar stickup man comes by.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#97

Post by tptacek » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 7:29 PM UTC

quanticle wrote: post #76

tptacek wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might say you're "banning Bitcoin", but what you're really doing is banning Bitcoin's linkages to the existing institutional financial system. That's a very tenable project.

I think it's more difficult than one imagines to ban Bitcoin's linkages to the existing institutional financial system. After all, it's not as if REvil or DarkSide are using Coinbase to trade their Bitcoin. If the United States shuts down all Bitcoin exchanges operating on its territory, but Russia does not, then does that have a meaningful impact on the usage of Bitcoin for cybercrime? It seems to me that all such a…

Yes, it does, because it makes it much more difficult for victims to confidently interact with the criminal financial system.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#98

Post by tptacek » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 7:30 PM UTC

quanticle wrote: post #85

tptacek wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no evidence at all that computer science and information technology actually knows how to solve the underlying security problems without forcing untenable compromises on the economy. We can produce secure software, but only at a level of expense and time that would preclude most commercial software development.

Then perhaps we shouldn't produce software. If the costs to mitigate the negative externalities of a certain product or service outweigh the net benefits of said product or service, the creation of that product or service is a net negative on society, and we should cease that activity. It's like arguing that a coal-fired power plant isn't profitable if it has to pay for all the carbon that it's producing.

"We should stop producing software" is a take, and I support it! But I also recognize that the societal cost of ceasing all software development would be huge, and the cost of stopping all cryptocurrency is small and would be felt mostly by speculators. As the saying goes: first you couldn't use Bitcoin to buy a pizza, then you could use Bitcoin to buy a pizza, and now you can't use Bitcoin to buy a pizza.

Coal power plants aren't profitable if they have to pay for their externalities, and should be shut down.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#99

Post by px43 » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 7:31 PM UTC

grumple wrote: post #78

px43 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sending money over the internet. If you don't understand why that's an critical utility for billions of people on this planet, then you're not worth arguing with.

Sending money over the internet is faster and safer using methods that existed before bitcoin (sending via banks / paypal / venmo / cashapp / etc). Crypto does not enable this.

None of those services actually let you send money over the internet. All of them are custodial. You give them your money, they hold onto it, and when they feel like it, they might let you interact with other users within their closed ecosystems.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#100

Post by px43 » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 7:33 PM UTC

thehappypm wrote: post #92

px43 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sending money over the internet. If you don't understand why that's an critical utility for billions of people on this planet, then you're not worth arguing with.

Crypto is one tool for sending money over the internet, but it's hardly the only one, and it's far from the best. Most transaction utilities don't have potential for your transfer to lose 30% overnight.

Have you invented a magical currency that always retains its value? If so you should probabally let the world know.