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Why we should end the data economy

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Re: Why we should end the data economy

#91

Somehow organizations get an immense amount of value out of tracking everything you do, say, think, and buy; everywhere you go; and everyone you meet. Two questions: 1. Why should they profit off of my data without my consent? (Hint: they shouldn't.) 2. Why is it so hard for me to get value out of it? Shit, if it's gonna be collected, aggregated, and analyzed anyway, I should just do it my damn self and actually get…

I don't think so. It is not the data itself that has value. It is a game of information asymmetry and that corporations can make you desire things you wouldn't desire without that interaction. They then convert a fraction of that desire into money flowing from you to them that you otherwise would have kept.

Maybe I am old school or too naive, but I don't see how I would make a personal margin with my own data.

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#92
post #74

Somehow organizations get an immense amount of value out of tracking everything you do, say, think, and buy; everywhere you go; and everyone you meet. Two questions: 1. Why should they profit off of my data without my consent? (Hint: they shouldn't.) 2. Why is it so hard for me to get value out of it? Shit, if it's gonna be collected, aggregated, and analyzed anyway, I should just do it my damn self and actually get…

Exactly, there’s a dollar value to you that they’re not paying you. You’d need a “property right” over it. (You are your own “property” already anyway.)

I think the root problem is the indirect nature of that dollar value. It's not concrete / obvious enough for normal people to understand it. Seems to be a sales / marketing problem as much as a technical one.

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#93

Somehow organizations get an immense amount of value out of tracking everything you do, say, think, and buy; everywhere you go; and everyone you meet. Two questions: 1. Why should they profit off of my data without my consent? (Hint: they shouldn't.) 2. Why is it so hard for me to get value out of it? Shit, if it's gonna be collected, aggregated, and analyzed anyway, I should just do it my damn self and actually get…

You are getting free searches, email, messaging, photo storage etc

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#94

Somehow organizations get an immense amount of value out of tracking everything you do, say, think, and buy; everywhere you go; and everyone you meet. Two questions: 1. Why should they profit off of my data without my consent? (Hint: they shouldn't.) 2. Why is it so hard for me to get value out of it? Shit, if it's gonna be collected, aggregated, and analyzed anyway, I should just do it my damn self and actually get…

You're getting their service. You want to use Facebook to talk to your family and keep up with your friends. You pay them in info, they pay you with the service you're using. Same with every other site, vox, theverge, slashdot, etc...

Sure there are a few companies you pay that also collect your data and I wish they didn't but even then they'd raise the price (maybe willing to pay more) if they didn't subside the service via your info

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#95
The "data economy" is just an extension of the "Advertising Economy".

Of course the idea of an "Advertising Economy" should cause people to pause a bit since advertising, by its nature, can only help maximize profits for somebody else. In theory the money that gets pumped into advertising can only be squeezed from the profits of other companies who are doing some optimization, weighing the cost of advertising vs the increase in their market. The maximum amount it makes sense to pay an advertiser is proportional to the increase in the audience they provide, with the assumption that your profit - fee * population_ads > profit * population_no_ads.

One thing should be very clear, advertising cannot create value, it can only extract some of the surplus value that other companies are creating. This puts a pretty hard limit on how big advertisers can grow.

The solution to this was of course to take the byproduct of advertising, the generation of large amounts of demographic data, and transform that into a product. Suddenly selling, sorting and manipulating data create an entirely new class of products and create demand for new professionals as well.

The advertising industry, specializing in creating the illusion of value when their may be none, has done a brilliant job of convincing everyone that data is inherently values. Allowing tech companies to sell not only their data, that is often of questionable actual value, but the infrastructure to use this data, and sell training in the skills necessary to work with big data.

The "data economy" is just advertising turned in on itself. Anyone who works with data knows deep down that all of this is a farce, but I think we still have a bit of time before all of this hits the fan, so enjoy the ride.

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#96
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> cookie tracking data has NEVER been associated with any leak or data breach that resulted in personal harm. This is a very specific statement. It may be true. But, even if we accept for the sake of argument that it is, it's not quite the same statement as, "Mass personal data collection has never resulted in personal harm," which, while seeming quite similar, also happens to be false.

But "[m]ass personal data collection" is a huge superset of "cookie tracking data"; the former encompasses all credit card information database breaches (such as Sony's), along with all government and healthcare database 'leaks'.

We could limit it to "for marketing purposes" (which is what I meant, though I failed to specify it) and still find plenty of clear-cut examples of harm. This isn't breaking news. I took a class in graduate school that was largely devoted to studying examples of them and discussing their ethical and policy implications, and that was years and years ago.

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#98
post #3
post #2

Explaining to people what they should do regarding matters that there are no ways to achieve the stated goals is the laziest, lowest value category of journalism. It's a plague.

Uhhh, you can stop using said services and software that abuse privacy, e.g., Facebook, Google, Twitter, TicToc, etc.

True, but there is no practical way to get through our work days without them using us anyway.

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#99

Honestly, I'm kind of sick of how bad a rap advertising gets. Now sure, companies knowing a lot about your personal life is creepy on an intuitive level, but the fact of the matter is that cookie tracking data has NEVER been associated with any leak or data breach that resulted in personal harm. The thing people SHOULD be worried about is stuff like the Experian leak, where credit companies collect your non-anonymize…

"but the fact of the matter is that cookie tracking data has NEVER been associated with any leak or data breach that resulted in personal harm" Do you have a link for this?

Well, it's hard to prove the absence of a negative - I think that it's on the people claiming harm to provide some examples. However, I'm not even sure what a cookie data leak would look like. The large advertising brokers are handling petabytes of cookie tracking data per day. To gain any insight out of it you need to run jobs on giant clusters. The volume of the data makes it basically impossible to exfiltrate. So yeah, I'm pretty confident in this statement.

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#100
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, there’s a dollar value to you that they’re not paying you. You’d need a “property right” over it. (You are your own “property” already anyway.)

I think the root problem is the indirect nature of that dollar value. It's not concrete / obvious enough for normal people to understand it. Seems to be a sales / marketing problem as much as a technical one.

And I could imagine a similar line of reasoning being applied for the value of the land native Americans “sold” to the colonists - when they themselves didn’t have a conception of such ownership before or after that encounter.
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