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Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

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Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#91
post #54
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally think we'll see charging poles next to most public parking spaces before we see a sufficiently built out network of H2 'gas stations'.

I think this underestimates the massive infrastructure investments those charging poles would need to work. I live in a medium density European town (about 1000 inhabitants/km2, think 4-5 story buildings on average). In residential areas the whole street is lined with parked cars on both sides. To charge these, one would need something like 1MW charging per every 4 cars, which means every 20m of the road, on both sid…

> To charge these, one would need something like 1MW charging per every 4 cars, which means every 20m of the road, on both sides.

I think your numbers are off by at least two orders of magnitude.

Let's say an average BEV travels 20000 miles per year and that it consumes 400 Wh/mile. Traveling 20k miles per year takes about 21 days assuming 40 mph average speed.

If we assume the car is charging the rest of the time, average power required is (400 Wh/mile * 20000 miles) / (1 year - 21 days) = 0.968 kW average charging power!

That's quite a bit less than 250 kW per car (well, 1 MW per 4 cars) you suggested! It'd still be below 2 kW, even if the car is charging just 50% of the time it's not in use.

Other way to think about is charging from empty to full battery with 11 kW of power: (80 kWh) / (11 kW) = 7.27 hours.

Please also remember charging the battery full would be a rather rare scenario. I'd be surprised if you need even 10 kW power allocation for each 4 cars being charged — 1% of what you suggested. Simply because the batteries in most of the cars are full most of the time!

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#92

Hydrogen fuel is still a fossil fuel byproduct right? I’m not sure what the point of this is. It sure doesn’t seem like a green technology at this point.

It is, but it doesn't have to be. It is possible to make H2 from H20 and sunlight. At the moment there is little market for such "green" hydrogen but the hope is that hydrogen-based transportation will create that market. Imho I cannot afford to be a market leaders in this field. Until H2 is available everywhere, including at remote locations during Canadian winters, I'll have to stick to gas stations. (I have yet to…

While technically true, the conversion is inefficient. It takes a lot of power to extract H2 from H2O. You could just use that power directly.

The problem with electrics in -50 is keeping them plugged in when not in use. -50 is very extreme though, you’re talking far north or Edmonton.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#93
post #77
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on how you define convenient. Hydrogen can be refilled quickly, in minutes, like a conventional liquid fueled car. If there were a network of hydrogen filling stations then driving, especially long distances, would be similar to driving a liquid fueled car.

> Hydrogen can be refilled quickly, in minutes Only if the gas station has enough hydrogen at the right pressure. After a few cars it'll need 45+min to build up pressure again. The gas stations are really expensive due to the problems, plus there are more restrictions on where they can be placed. Hydrogen for cars is great for companies such as Shell. For the foreseeable future they expect most of the Hydrogen to be…

What are the restrictions? There’s a hydrogen station in Berkeley in University Avenue across the street from a school and with houses on two sides.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#94
post #67

> “I was constantly checking the Nexo’s efficiency readout to maximise the distance I was getting per kilogram of hydrogen. I found that by using techniques from rally driving, such as looking as far down the road as possible, as well as tips I have learned from my dad for driving a truck efficiently over long distances, it’s actually possible to go way beyond Nexo’s official range.” Anyone have some insights on this…

Hypermiling is almost a sport at this point. https://electrek.co/2018/07/16/tesla-model-3-autopilot-unman...

If there's one thing I've learned on the internet, it's that if there's a measurable number, people will turn it into a hobby and then a sport to maximize or minimize it.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#95
post #78

Hydrogen fuel is still a fossil fuel byproduct right? I’m not sure what the point of this is. It sure doesn’t seem like a green technology at this point.

It has a similar relationship to fossil fuels as electric cars.

Operating electric cars on coal generation produces more miles driven for the same carbon emissions than gasoline does.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#96
post #16

What is the appeal of a hydrogen car vs an eletric car? The range appears to be similar, but being able to charge at home is so much more convenient.

I live in a city center, no driveway. My neighbour with an electric i3 runs a charging cord across the sidewalk, I'm not going to do that, ever. I'd much prefer a hydrogen car I can fill up someplace else over requiring plugging in my car every day.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#97
post #16

What is the appeal of a hydrogen car vs an eletric car? The range appears to be similar, but being able to charge at home is so much more convenient.

Hydrogen has a great energy density, that's why it is used in rockets. It may have similar range as battery electric cars but it can scale better.

It can be refueled in minutes, like gas cars.

And the economy is based on using "waste" renewable energy. The problem is that solar panels and wind turbines don't produce energy when we need it the most (see: duck curve). The idea is to store that energy as hydrogen and use it in vehicles.

For commuters with a garage and a charging spot, batteries are more convenient but I think big trucks can benefit more from hydrogen.

Now the big question is, can we modify these hydrogen trucks to "roll steam" at these pesky Teslas.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#98
post #25
post #16

What is the appeal of a hydrogen car vs an eletric car? The range appears to be similar, but being able to charge at home is so much more convenient.

What is the appeal of a hydrogen car vs an eletric car? Fast 'charging' seems to be the big one. Also for larger engines (like trucks) you should get lower total weight compared to batteries.

I'm begging to doubt this. Right now all hydrogen car are about 15% heavier than their BEV equivalents yet are SLOWER and make worse use of available internal space.

When the 4860 cells are used in the structural battery pack, I recken electric semis will have a good power to weight ratio too.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#99
post #36
post #12

Since “tank” isn’t a unit of measure, I suppose anyone could trivially break the record with a larger tank. From the article: > The Nexo consumed 6.27kg of H2 For comparison with the other production H2 cars: Toyota Mirai: 5.6kg Honda Clarity: 5.0kg Seems like a promising technology. My understanding is that the current blocker is infrastructure. It’s hard to pressurize up to 10,000 PSI, so many facilities are only a…

Hydride tanks don't require those high pressures. Other than nuclear arms treaties, is there a technical reason they don't use those instead?

Long fill times? This commercially available one says 48 hours to re-charge it.

https://www.fuelcellstore.com/hydrogen-equipment/hydrogen-st...

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#100

> “I was constantly checking the Nexo’s efficiency readout to maximise the distance I was getting per kilogram of hydrogen. I found that by using techniques from rally driving, such as looking as far down the road as possible, as well as tips I have learned from my dad for driving a truck efficiently over long distances, it’s actually possible to go way beyond Nexo’s official range.” Anyone have some insights on this…

I drive a Prius, it's a skill to drive efficiently. The main tip: do not use the gas pedal if you're going to brake soon anyway. Think of the brakes as wasting gas, then you'll use the brakes sparingly, and the safe way to do that is by not accelerating unnecessarily. Just think of this. You see some kid in a red sports car at a stop sign. They blast off quickly, then after one block they brake hard for the next stop…

Yes, it’s a skill you learn with hybrid cars because they reward you with silence when you are efficient, and they punish you with noise when you run out of battery.
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