Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016) • Hacker News Board

Re: Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016)

#91

Post by YeGoblynQueenne » Sat, May 08, 2021, 6:05 PM UTC

wolverine876 wrote: post #89

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #23

The article makes a very strenuous effort to make a point about something something racism in rock that sounds a bit boring and trite to my ears. After all, Bon Scott said it best years ago: In the beginning Back in nineteen fifty five Man didn't know 'bout a rock 'n' roll show And all that jive The white man had the schmaltz The black man had the blues No one knew what they was gonna do But Tchaikovsky had the news…

I didn't know metal was so big in Athens, Greece. Thanks. > So why didn't the black grasroots ever sprout an analogous new rock scene, instead of turning towards the mainstream, big stage, light show, for-profit music that comes from black artists for the last few decades? For me, that's like asking, 'why didn't Van Gogh ever develop something innovative, like the abstract artists, instead of painting in his popular…

To clarify, I'm skeptical of the article's attempt to point at racism, not of the existence of racism in general, neither even in the context that the article places it in. I'm criticising the article.

I must say I don't appreciate your attempt to connect my comment with racist views you may have encountered in the past. I invite you to consider your comment in the context of the HN guidelines about responding to the strongest interpretation of others' comments, which I believe you ommitted to do in this case.

(And I edited this and deleted other comments to make the whole exchange less combative, also in the spirit of HN guidelines).

Re: Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016)

#92

Post by YeGoblynQueenne » Sat, May 08, 2021, 6:07 PM UTC

jrm4 wrote: post #36

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #23

The article makes a very strenuous effort to make a point about something something racism in rock that sounds a bit boring and trite to my ears. After all, Bon Scott said it best years ago: In the beginning Back in nineteen fifty five Man didn't know 'bout a rock 'n' roll show And all that jive The white man had the schmaltz The black man had the blues No one knew what they was gonna do But Tchaikovsky had the news…

I mean, it's important to remember that the racist segmenting of the industry (again, mostly the fault of the sellers not the artists) never really went away, it just changed in a lot of ways. So there's the difference between "Rock n Roll" the sound, and "Rock n Roll," the product. As a sound, it pretty consistently stays there, though perhaps not as crisply defined. Prince, Michael Jackson, and later Run DMC et al.…

Run DMC count as rock? That explains why I dig them :)

(or it might just be the Aerosmith cover/ duo)

Re: Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016)

#93

Post by YeGoblynQueenne » Sat, May 08, 2021, 6:10 PM UTC

derwiki wrote: post #34

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #23

The article makes a very strenuous effort to make a point about something something racism in rock that sounds a bit boring and trite to my ears. After all, Bon Scott said it best years ago: In the beginning Back in nineteen fifty five Man didn't know 'bout a rock 'n' roll show And all that jive The white man had the schmaltz The black man had the blues No one knew what they was gonna do But Tchaikovsky had the news…

“Roll over Beethoven” by Chuck Berry has the line “And tell Tchaikovsky the news”—-I presume that is the reference?

Right! That explains it I think. Thanks!

Re: Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016)

#94

Post by [deleted] » Sat, May 08, 2021, 6:12 PM UTC

xphilter wrote: post #33

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #23

The article makes a very strenuous effort to make a point about something something racism in rock that sounds a bit boring and trite to my ears. After all, Bon Scott said it best years ago: In the beginning Back in nineteen fifty five Man didn't know 'bout a rock 'n' roll show And all that jive The white man had the schmaltz The black man had the blues No one knew what they was gonna do But Tchaikovsky had the news…

I mean, if you exclude racism and structural racism as an answer, you’ll be wondering for a long time “why black people don’t rock anymore.” But it’s not my job to educate you, I’d suggest you look into yourself.

[deleted]

Re: Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016)

#95

Post by bigbillheck » Sat, May 08, 2021, 6:19 PM UTC

jrm4 wrote: post #36

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #23

The article makes a very strenuous effort to make a point about something something racism in rock that sounds a bit boring and trite to my ears. After all, Bon Scott said it best years ago: In the beginning Back in nineteen fifty five Man didn't know 'bout a rock 'n' roll show And all that jive The white man had the schmaltz The black man had the blues No one knew what they was gonna do But Tchaikovsky had the news…

I mean, it's important to remember that the racist segmenting of the industry (again, mostly the fault of the sellers not the artists) never really went away, it just changed in a lot of ways. So there's the difference between "Rock n Roll" the sound, and "Rock n Roll," the product. As a sound, it pretty consistently stays there, though perhaps not as crisply defined. Prince, Michael Jackson, and later Run DMC et al.…

> hip-hop comes out a little after most of the Satanic Panic has died down

That's not the way I remember it. For example, the McMartin trial started the same year as 'Paid in Full' dropped, and the West Memphis Three the same year as 'Enter the Wu-Tang'.

> Rappers get treated as "scary" for basically just being black, RIGHT AFTER

Young men 'get[ting] treated as "scary" for basically just being black' has a history way longer than rap music.

Re: Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016)

#96

Post by [deleted] » Sat, May 08, 2021, 6:23 PM UTC

nzeribe wrote: post #72

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #23

The article makes a very strenuous effort to make a point about something something racism in rock that sounds a bit boring and trite to my ears. After all, Bon Scott said it best years ago: In the beginning Back in nineteen fifty five Man didn't know 'bout a rock 'n' roll show And all that jive The white man had the schmaltz The black man had the blues No one knew what they was gonna do But Tchaikovsky had the news…

That's not true. Afropunk was a response to the question you pose. White people stole the rock from Black kids the way Ancient Greece stole the Hippocratic Oath from African culture. It is almost the same. Today, it's almost impossible to know Bo Diddley, Sister Rosetta Tharpe and other Black pioneers created rock in almost it's complete form. "History is written by the winners", they say, and our cultural memory is…

[deleted]

Re: Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016)

#97

Post by tolbish » Sat, May 08, 2021, 6:28 PM UTC

mellosouls wrote: post #39

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #23

The article makes a very strenuous effort to make a point about something something racism in rock that sounds a bit boring and trite to my ears. After all, Bon Scott said it best years ago: In the beginning Back in nineteen fifty five Man didn't know 'bout a rock 'n' roll show And all that jive The white man had the schmaltz The black man had the blues No one knew what they was gonna do But Tchaikovsky had the news…

So why didn't the black grasroots ever sprout an analogous new rock scene, instead of turning towards the mainstream, big stage, light show, for-profit music that comes from black artists for the last few decades? I think this claim speaks more to your perception of music that isn't "rock" (there is no greater association with stadium-filling and dull commercialism than that label for some of us) than it does about w…

Right. Isn't rock the most mainstream, big stage, for-profit genre in existence? Their comment just sounds like they want to criticize black people as a whole for some reason. Like...do they also criticize Indians for not being really into rock and for only being into stereotypically Indian music?

Re: Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016)

#98

Post by YeGoblynQueenne » Sat, May 08, 2021, 6:40 PM UTC

tolbish wrote: post #97

mellosouls wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why didn't the black grasroots ever sprout an analogous new rock scene, instead of turning towards the mainstream, big stage, light show, for-profit music that comes from black artists for the last few decades? I think this claim speaks more to your perception of music that isn't "rock" (there is no greater association with stadium-filling and dull commercialism than that label for some of us) than it does about w…

Right. Isn't rock the most mainstream, big stage, for-profit genre in existence? Their comment just sounds like they want to criticize black people as a whole for some reason. Like...do they also criticize Indians for not being really into rock and for only being into stereotypically Indian music?

I don't understand why you say that I am criticising black people. I wondered why black kids don't, as a rule (some do) make rock anymore. How is that criticising anyone?

I think you and other posters here are jumping the gun and making associations between my comment and other comments you may have heard or read elsewhere and in a different context.

If that is the case, please consider again the HN guidelines about responding to the strongest interpretation of other users' comments. Assuming I'm criticising blacks just because I ask why they don't make rock music anymore is a very weak interpretation of my comment.

Re: Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016)

#99

Post by Balgair » Sat, May 08, 2021, 7:03 PM UTC

stuart78 wrote: post #41

I think that the narrative of last twenty years has been a re-blending of genre in a way that is not fully appreciated. While you can certainly find plenty of music that fits the mold established in the 60s, 80s or 90s around you also find much more at the top of the charts that challenges those categories. Right now the top 10 Billboard chart includes Lil Nas X and The Weeknd, neither of whom fits comfortably in the…

> And if you look at what is happening on Bandcamp or Soundcloud or YouTube or wherever else young people are trying new things you see a tremendous heterogeneity of inspiration and not a lot of concern for where the sound fits in.

One way I have heard to mentally categorize things: What is the stereotypical musical instrument of that generation/genre?

For jazz and the silent generation it was the saxophone, maybe others though.

For rock-n-roll it's the electric guitar, no question.

The 80's was the electric keyboard and synths, kinda.

Today? The laptop.

Re: Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016)

#100

Post by friehe » Sat, May 08, 2021, 7:25 PM UTC

SyzygistSix wrote: post #79

mycologos wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like that theory, but TFA doesn't really advance it. Among other things, TFA argues that commercially powerful interests like record companies deliberately fractured rock and roll's racial integration into segregated genres. I don't think "geeks, mops, sociopaths" covers this kind of intentional, external crackdown on a subculture.

TFA? What are you referencing?

TFA - The fucking article