Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Cars are about to be a software platform, subscriptions and all

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 220 posts

Re: Cars are about to be a software platform, subscriptions and all

#91

Post by saagarjha »

fy20 wrote: post #80
fouric wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but that's a losing game - the manufacturers will continually tighten security until it's infeasible - see how difficult it is to jailbreak current-generation iPhones and game consoles, for instance. The only ways out are social (consumers acting en masse to exert market pressure) or legal (regulation). You can't hack your way around this issue - as the attacker, the strong crypto that exists (and enables things…

Not everyone cares about regulations :-) My country has (since fall of USSR) been one of the biggest used car markets in Europe, and as cars have added more and more electronics people have started figuring out how they work and developing tools to work around them. I recently came across (randomly browsing) a device developed here that plugs into the OBD port and disables the AdBlue system (an extra fluid you need t…

Does AdBlue comply with some sort of legal regulations on emissions?

Re: Cars are about to be a software platform, subscriptions and all

#92

Post by gnicholas »

Naac wrote: post #84
gnicholas wrote: post #81

I hate subscriptions as much as the next guy, but I also see the flip side of this coin: the legacy auto companies don't have OTA updates, and this affects their incentives in negative ways. I have considered getting a Subaru Outback, a Toyota RAV4, and a Honda CR-V. All of them have 'lane-centering' features, but none of them are good at present. And none of the companies say that they will allow OTA (or any other p…

I think you're putting way too much faith in these companies. Just going off of your example, they're most likely just going to provide support for 2 years ( if that ), and then say "sorry, the newest version of lane keep assist isn't available for your model". A la Apple.

I’d certainly not trust them right out of the gate. But after several years of seeing their practices, I could have a decent expectation of what would be supported and for how long.

Re: Cars are about to be a software platform, subscriptions and all

#93

Post by insulanus »

gnicholas wrote: post #81

I hate subscriptions as much as the next guy, but I also see the flip side of this coin: the legacy auto companies don't have OTA updates, and this affects their incentives in negative ways. I have considered getting a Subaru Outback, a Toyota RAV4, and a Honda CR-V. All of them have 'lane-centering' features, but none of them are good at present. And none of the companies say that they will allow OTA (or any other p…

I admire your optimism. Here are some reasons I don't want to see car makers selling software:

1. There is a huge power imbalance between a car company and a car "owner" (licensee?)

2. The incentives on the car company side are not aligned with the desires of the car owner.

3. The will be incented to lock you in, a la the google/apple store.

4. You now have sunk costs in a hardware platform. What if you want to change from Honda to Toyota?

5. Almost no one is good at making software, and that includes car companies. One year marketing driven turnarounds won't help with safety.

Re: Cars are about to be a software platform, subscriptions and all

#94

Post by maybelsyrup »

MrDresden wrote: post #55
Hammershaft wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its interesting that we have created a world where the people who build software are often the most skeptical of and aviodant of the software industry.

It is because we know how the sausage is made.

I keep waiting for someone to write a book about how often this is the case in different industries, areas of expertise, etc. It's a variation on the George Bernard Shaw thing: "every profession is a conspiracy against the laity".

In my own profession I'm extremely wary of my peers and the services they provide for the simple fact that I know how much and how often things can go wrong, and when I've needed those services myself, it takes me a very long time to vet people.

Re: Cars are about to be a software platform, subscriptions and all

#95

Post by olivermarks »

Now is the right time to buy a pre internet car and relevant consumables (belts, alternator, starter etc) of your choice before this becomes an issue. So long as you keep the suspension in good shape, and maintain the drive train properly you will be in good shape to avoid the rentier surveillance culture looming.

Re: Cars are about to be a software platform, subscriptions and all

#96

Post by kstenerud »

sz4kerto wrote: post #21
obviouslynotme wrote: post #2

I don't want my car to be a software platform. I want it to be like my microwave. It might have software, but software is only incidental to its operation. I do not want to tweet from my microwave. I do not want ads in traffic. This is non-negotiable for safety reasons alone. I don't care what I have to do to attain that. If that means replacing the radio. I will do it. If you brick my car if I don't have a Manufactu…

> I want it to be like my microwave. Yes. Plus: I want it to be like a simple microwave that does what I need: heats for a certain amount of time at a certain power level. 2 physical knobs.

I bought an industrial microwave a number of years ago just for this feature: Its controls consist of a single dial: how long to cook for.

Also, in an industrial microwave the magnetron itself rotates, so there's no silly rotating plate business. Just put food in, turn the dial, take food out, and clean up is a snap.

Re: Cars are about to be a software platform, subscriptions and all

#97

Post by dmortin »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #47
Traster wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that you're not going to have this choice. You'll be that guy insisting he wants a phone that's thicker but has better battery life - no manufacturer cares what you want because they have to operate at a scale where they can't cater for niches.

I'm not so sure. Look at the European market: manual gears everywhere. Look at the UK, South African and Autraslian market: the car is inversed, with the wheel on the right. The car market seems way different than the phone market. It's not an information platform, it moves matter. It's not virtual, it's real. It's not luxury like the phone used to be, people life depends on it already. It's not a free market, but he…

> Look at the European market: manual gears everywhere

Automatic is more expensive. If they had the same price tag then most people would buy automatic in Europe too, because it's more convenient.

Re: Cars are about to be a software platform, subscriptions and all

#98

Post by gnicholas »

insulanus wrote: post #93
gnicholas wrote: post #81

I hate subscriptions as much as the next guy, but I also see the flip side of this coin: the legacy auto companies don't have OTA updates, and this affects their incentives in negative ways. I have considered getting a Subaru Outback, a Toyota RAV4, and a Honda CR-V. All of them have 'lane-centering' features, but none of them are good at present. And none of the companies say that they will allow OTA (or any other p…

I admire your optimism. Here are some reasons I don't want to see car makers selling software: 1. There is a huge power imbalance between a car company and a car "owner" (licensee?) 2. The incentives on the car company side are not aligned with the desires of the car owner. 3. The will be incented to lock you in, a la the google/apple store. 4. You now have sunk costs in a hardware platform. What if you want to chang…

I'm not an optimistic person! I just see there being different ways to innovate here. Right now, Tesla is pretty much the only one offering OTA updates, and they don't charge extra for it. It's just built into the price of the vehicle (as far as I understand).

I think a healthy market would have more OTA offerings, which could be purchased outright (if you planned to have the car for many years) or paid year-to-year. Basically, there has been very little innovation/competition in this space, and Tesla is shaking things up. I see that as a good thing, since innovation and competition will make things better for customers on balance.

Re: Cars are about to be a software platform, subscriptions and all

#99

Post by atat7024 »

thesuperbigfrog wrote: post #19
fouric wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but that's a losing game - the manufacturers will continually tighten security until it's infeasible - see how difficult it is to jailbreak current-generation iPhones and game consoles, for instance. The only ways out are social (consumers acting en masse to exert market pressure) or legal (regulation). You can't hack your way around this issue - as the attacker, the strong crypto that exists (and enables things…

Sadly, you are right. One of the themes in "Car Wars" is that laws are created which make it illegal to run unapproved software on the self-driving cars. The reasons cited for the laws are "for safety", but it seems like a thin veneer over the car manufacturer having complete control of the car's software, and by extension the car itself.

> laws are created which make it illegal to run unapproved software on the self-driving cars.

Enforcement impossible.

Re: Cars are about to be a software platform, subscriptions and all

#100

Post by atat7024 »

agumonkey wrote: post #13

Smartphone already brought a kind of connection burden, now transport is next.. sociologically it's super weird. Can't wait to submit my new business idea to the next YC round: selling isolation.

So...executive real estate agent?
Post reply on HN