Labor shortage or terrible jobs? • Hacker News Board

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#91

Post by leetcrew » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:32 PM UTC

claudiulodro wrote: post #52

unethical_ban wrote: post #21

Occasionally, Twitter provides some nice insights in digestible forms (of course, nuance gets stripped). I saw a post recently that said something like "We watch Star Trek and marvel at their post-scarcity world. We are living in a post-scarcity world now, but all the benefits are being funneled by wage slaves up to the 0.1%." Paraphrased. I was talking with a friend who mentioned that a local pizza place is offering…

> Is it because the high-schoolers who would normally do that aren't looking for jobs due to pandemic? The concept that entry-level food service is mostly staffed by high-schoolers who don't really "need" the money is the weirdest trope. Basically every restaurant is open during school hours. Who is handling the lunch rush?

it's pretty common for the second shift to start right around the time highschool gets out. or if it doesn't, the manager might be flexible. dinner rush doesn't usually start until 6:00 or so. there's also the weekend.

obviously highschoolers are not filling 100% of entry-level food service jobs, but they make up a pretty good chunk of these workers along with some college kids. it's a good option for someone who has literally no work experience.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#92

Post by csours » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:32 PM UTC

unethical_ban wrote: post #21

Occasionally, Twitter provides some nice insights in digestible forms (of course, nuance gets stripped). I saw a post recently that said something like "We watch Star Trek and marvel at their post-scarcity world. We are living in a post-scarcity world now, but all the benefits are being funneled by wage slaves up to the 0.1%." Paraphrased. I was talking with a friend who mentioned that a local pizza place is offering…

With apologies to William Gibson "The post-scarcity future is already here – it's just not very evenly distributed."

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#93

Post by scotu » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:33 PM UTC

_wldu wrote: post #55

unyttigfjelltol wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the pizza shop would get a stronger response if they hired permanent workers on an annual $37k salary? An $18/hr wage is not identical....

But then they'd have to provide benefits (like health insurance, parental leave, etc.) and treat workers with dignity and respect. In America, that's unlikely to happen without government regulations enforcing it.

to be fair, nowhere that's likely to happen without government regulation where there is profit to be had otherwise.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#94

Post by solosoyokaze » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:34 PM UTC

honksillet wrote: post #56

There are no such things as “jobs americans won’t do”. It’s just you have to compensate people accordingly. With this failing stealth UBI experiment that we are currently engaged in, people aren’t willing to work when many of them are getting near 100% the same income not to work. The rest of us are being crushed by inflation.

> The rest of us are being crushed by inflation.

The top 1% are making more money than ever before. If you're holding assets impacted by inflation, you're doing quite well now.

If we take it as a given that in a modern, humane society no one should starve to death on the street and everyone should have access to the basics of survival, then the answer to the labor "shortage" is simply to shift some of the historically record breaking wealth inequality back down the org chart from the executives to the roles that need filling.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#95

Post by somebodythere » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:35 PM UTC

christophilus wrote: post #73

jnwatson wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ultimately, this is a problem with all government benefits with an strict binary income limit. The result is that, in some circumstances, earning 1 more dollar results in losing thousands of dollars. The marginal income tax system was set up this way for a reason. If these unemployment benefits were paid out UBI-style, regardless of current employment, there wouldn't be a disincentive to find work.

> The result is that, in some circumstances, earning 1 more dollar results in losing thousands of dollars. I think your new marginal rate only applies to anything over the limit that bumped you into a new tax bracket, so I don’t think this is right. A raise always gets you more money. The exception being if it bumps you out of the government assisted healthcare bracket. Then, a raise could indeed be a loss. Edit: I t…

They are talking about welfare benefits. Many of these are structured so that the marginal dollar you earn results in $0.75 to $1000+ being taken away from you in benefits.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#96

Post by luckylion » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:35 PM UTC

treve wrote: post #37

kokanator wrote: post #28

Pre-covid businesses which paid borderline wages are going to find it really difficult to compete with the government. Basically, you have an administration 'silently' waging war of certain types of business or jobs without needing to pass controversial legislation for things like a minimum wage increase or universal income. If it feel subversive, it is. But the cost of controversy these days causes people to find al…

This is a good thing. Businesses that rely on paying people salaries that keep them under the poverty line have no right to exist. Your business is exploitative and doesn't deserve to survive.

What do you do with people who don't have any skills that are worth more money? Do you just let the government take care of them perpetually?

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#97

Post by throwaway1777 » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:36 PM UTC

leetcrew wrote: post #91

claudiulodro wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it because the high-schoolers who would normally do that aren't looking for jobs due to pandemic? The concept that entry-level food service is mostly staffed by high-schoolers who don't really "need" the money is the weirdest trope. Basically every restaurant is open during school hours. Who is handling the lunch rush?

it's pretty common for the second shift to start right around the time highschool gets out. or if it doesn't, the manager might be flexible. dinner rush doesn't usually start until 6:00 or so. there's also the weekend. obviously highschoolers are not filling 100% of entry-level food service jobs, but they make up a pretty good chunk of these workers along with some college kids. it's a good option for someone who has…

Except it’s not really a good option. Maybe a high schooler should be focusing on school.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#98

Post by cratermoon » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:36 PM UTC

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #70

lacker wrote: post #32

Personally, the pandemic has taught me how little I really need physical stores. Only a few items, like bicycles, shoes, and backpacking backpacks, do I really prefer buying them in a physical store. So for me at least, it would be okay if all these retail jobs went away, and all these retail stores just went out of business, and you just bought everything online. It seems like it could really be a disaster for peopl…

How do you handle buying clothes?

That's a tricky one, but it's solvable, if you're willing to give up the idea of having new and different styles regularly. Find a style & brand you like, figure out what size you wear and just buy that. You might have to send something back until you nail it.

For people with odd size requirements like me (I'm short), shopping online usually means you can find a better fit, because stores tend not to carry much outsize the most common sizes. Shoes are a great example: A size 7.5 (US) is about the biggest I can wear, sometimes a size 8 if they run small. The "standard" mens size is 9, and you can find lots of styles in size 9 to 11, but rarely anything smaller than 8. Guess what? that shoe is made in 7, but stores don't carry it.

Sometimes the maker will discontinue a line though, which means a switch. Shoemakers are notorious for this.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#99

Post by oramit » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:36 PM UTC

Clubber wrote: post #5

I think the "life is short," phenomenon that recently occurred to everybody due to COVID is also playing a part. People are thinking, something along the lines of, "I could have died and my gift of life has mostly consisted of working for this shithole company for the last 5 years." Employers might want to consider hiring more people in smaller shifts. Maybe an extra person and put everyone on 3-4 day shifts rather t…

I agree. Beyond the economic changes that have occurred, I think the social change is going to be even more dramatic. Everyone I know in my social circle has started new things, gone back to school, picked up old hobbies they neglected, or changed jobs. I don't think we are appreciating how radical a change it was for so many people to have months of free time where they had relative financial stability. You start to have time to really think about what you want.

Going forward I think people are just not going to put up with bullshit the way they did before.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#100

Post by intergalplan » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:37 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #4

LatteLazy wrote: post #3

Neither. If employers really wanted more workers, they'd up wages. If employees really wanted to work they'd settle for less. If neither is happening then everyone is happy and anyone complaining is a liar in the economic sense.

Apparently close to 30% of household income right now is from government payments. I think on average people are getting the equiv of $15/hr from gov checks. So for people to want to work it’s going to have to exceed that by some non trivial amount.

> Apparently close to 30% of household income right now is from government payments

How much is it normally? Definitely not 0%. Also, what's "government payments"? Does it include wages to government employees, for instance?

(I expect the figure is higher than normal, I'm just not sure from this how much higher)