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Apple reveals more about AirTag stalking protections

fastcompany.com

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Re: Apple reveals more about AirTag stalking protections

#91
post #86

“Instead, an AirTag that has not paired locally with its iPhone in three days will emit a sound.” Ugh, so if I’m gone for longer than a weekend all my stuff at home is going to start beeping? I’m sure my roommate will love that.

I think it has to be three days _and_ the airtag has to be in motion

Re: Apple reveals more about AirTag stalking protections

#92
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nearly zero knowledge of the airtags protocol, but something like this would allow tracking a stalking tag without giving a trackable identifier. • An AirTag which is seeing an owning device might only be reporting its presence to that device. We can ignore those. (I'm guessing AirTags listen in some limited way, this still works if they don't, it just is always in the separated state.) • An AirTag which is separated…

I think an important part you might’ve missed is that the tag has to be away from its owner to be considered stalking you. If two strangers ride a train together, their air tags won’t be considered stalking each other.

That is the test in the first two bullet points. If the AirTags don’t listen then you’d have to add a “I am responsible for that AirTag” broadcast message from the responsible device. But I kind of suspect they do listen, if only for a short period after a beacon message. They need to get their public keys from somewhere.

Re: Apple reveals more about AirTag stalking protections

#94

> If you are an iPhone user, for instance, and someone has placed an AirTag on your person, your phone will eventually alert you that an AirTag that isn’t yours has been found “moving with you.” Apple didn’t clarify how quickly or often this alert will arrive, but it did share that it will occur when you arrive at your home (the address stored in your Apple “Me” card) or at certain other locations that your phone has…

And you also know where theif theif lives.

For a very high value item, or for repeat offenses, it gives you a shot at getting your item back.

Re: Apple reveals more about AirTag stalking protections

#95
post #85
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the problem is the GPS resolution, which isn't accurate enough to know exactly which individual on a street has your stuff, or even which house it might be inside. A long while back, on a early Saturday morning, I was awoken by my doorbell and accosted by an angry father of a crying daughter who had had their iPhone stolen by someone at a bar the previous night. Well, "Find My iPhone" showed the dot location…

> The best GPS resolution available to civilians is about 8 meters (26 feet) - and that's under the best, most ideal situation using the best GPS receiver and a large antenna... things a small cell phone in a pocket or bag doesn't have. I am not sure where you got this from but that is incorrect - the accuracy (or resolution) depends entirely on the number of satellites and/or augmentation systems you're tapped into,…

From your link:

> For example, the government commits to broadcasting the GPS signal in space with a global average user range error (URE) of ≤7.8 m (25.6 ft.), with 95% probability. Actual performance exceeds the specification. On May 11, 2016, the global average URE was ≤0.715 m (2.3 ft.), 95% of the time

Which assumes clear skies and good line of sight... Neither condition exist inside your pocket or house.

Regardless, none of the technologies you listed are accurate enough for police to legally search a person or their home simply because some tech company says a device is located around some dot on a screen.

PS: Your warehouse tracking thing is interesting, although I think you'd of had an easier time tracking gyroscope/accelerometer senor data.

Re: Apple reveals more about AirTag stalking protections

#96
post #89

There are a lot of comments here about how useless these protections are, because A or B already exist, or C works better for stalking. I think most of those comments are missing the real point here. If an Apple product were ever used to stalk - or God forbid, harm - an individual, it would be a big national story. If a Tile or a Samsung tag (or an amazon gps tracker made for stalking) were used in the same way, it w…

Well, if it ridiculously easy to work around, they will probably get flak even earlier, harder, and be legislated to the ground more certainly than otherwise. I spoke with Frank Wang on a few meetups in Shenzhen many years ago, back when DJI was still kind of a garage company. Frank had big, nebulous ideas how he will be "engaging the civil society," "stakeholder negotiations," "industry wide self-governance body" bl…

His customers got them banned by doing reckless things.

Re: Apple reveals more about AirTag stalking protections

#97
This is such an amazingly terrible invention I have no clue where to begin. How many people will be sexually assaulted by predators planting these devices in the bags of unsuspecting folks at bars and tracking their every location? How many domestic abuse survivors will be terrorized by their abusers planting the tag on some possession then having access to their every location? Hell, how many folks will be burglarized by criminals who plant the tag on their car and can see when someone is away for on a distant vacation.

Some technology very much should not exist. “Tags that use an unsuspecting victim’s own phone to report their location back to a would-be criminal without their consent” is definitely on the list.

That being said, there are very easy ways to make this unusable for these cases, and I have no clue why they haven’t been implanted. Off the top of my head: a notification any time a tag has been away from it’s owners device for more than X time and has been around your device for at least Y time since, saying “it looks like XXX’s airtag has been lost and is with you, click here to message them”. Yes, this would sacrifice the privacy of the airtag owner, but it’s an opt-in, they only suffer if they buy an airtag. Compared to as-is a completely random unsuspecting person with no involvement in the ecosystem has both their privacy and security compromised.

Re: Apple reveals more about AirTag stalking protections

#98
post #86

“Instead, an AirTag that has not paired locally with its iPhone in three days will emit a sound.” Ugh, so if I’m gone for longer than a weekend all my stuff at home is going to start beeping? I’m sure my roommate will love that.

I think it has to be three days _and_ the airtag has to be in motion

I guess an ill-intentioned stalker could cripple or neuter the speaker to avoid it doing any sounds.

Re: Apple reveals more about AirTag stalking protections

#99
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if it ridiculously easy to work around, they will probably get flak even earlier, harder, and be legislated to the ground more certainly than otherwise. I spoke with Frank Wang on a few meetups in Shenzhen many years ago, back when DJI was still kind of a garage company. Frank had big, nebulous ideas how he will be "engaging the civil society," "stakeholder negotiations," "industry wide self-governance body" bl…

His customers got them banned by doing reckless things.

Really not.

Prior to the big buzz about drones, and DJI buying full page ads describing how their software can load no fly zones, avoid nuclear power stations, prisons, flight into people etc, nobody was ever concerned with some random Chinese gizmo.

And then he made people in places of power to read all kinds of scary things, to which they reacted in the most usual to them manner.

Re: Apple reveals more about AirTag stalking protections

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone slips an AirTag in your car to stalk you, your own phone would enable your stalker because by default it would automatically update the location of the AirTag, even if you are not an AirTag user. It is a bit different if your stalker used Tile to track you. You'd have to download that app and opt in.

No, you wouldn’t. It would only be necessary for the stalker to do it and then slip the Tile in with your belongings. Tiles can be marked lost until found by other users with the Tile app.

The main difference is Apple made it work way better and more accessible. Tile users are pretty rare in the wild.
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