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Surprisingly little alcohol can affect heart rate variability

span.health

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Re: Surprisingly little alcohol can affect heart rate variability

#91

Post by nradov »

serverholic wrote: post #90
nradov wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proper large scale, long term RCTs have almost never been done in the human nutrition field. In order to really get the "controlled" part of an RCT the researchers have to confine people somewhere that all of their food and beverage intake can be accurately counted. Obviously this is very expensive and researchers can't ethically confine people in controlled environments for years. At most those studies have been don…

Where the did you get the idea that I'm suggesting we lock people away for years? Yes of course it's expensive which is why I said we should have larger scale studies with more test subjects funded by the government. Also, what does subject reported data have to do with RTCs? What are you even arguing about?

You're totally missing the point. If the study relies on subject reported data then there's no proper control regardless of number of subjects. More funding won't fix that quality problem.

Re: Surprisingly little alcohol can affect heart rate variability

#92

Post by serverholic »

nradov wrote: post #91
serverholic wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where the did you get the idea that I'm suggesting we lock people away for years? Yes of course it's expensive which is why I said we should have larger scale studies with more test subjects funded by the government. Also, what does subject reported data have to do with RTCs? What are you even arguing about?

You're totally missing the point. If the study relies on subject reported data then there's no proper control regardless of number of subjects. More funding won't fix that quality problem.

Why are you assuming this hypothetical study will rely on subject reported data?

Re: Surprisingly little alcohol can affect heart rate variability

#93

Post by thinkharderdev »

spekcular wrote: post #82
thinkharderdev wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I looked at the paper but I don't understand how they got to that conclusion. There is still a J-shaped relationship between alcohol consumption and coronary heart disease outcomes. Not questioning the conclusion I just don't understand how you get to it from their data (due to my own ignorance).

Researchers are able to say that the J-shaped relationship is a result of factors correlated with alcohol use, instead of the effects of alcohol itself on the body, using a technique called Mendelian randomization. Here's a summary for the lay reader [0]: > One way to get around these limitations is through genetic studies. Some people carry a genetic variant that disrupts their ability to metabolize alcohol, causing…

Ah, I get it now. Thanks!

Re: Surprisingly little alcohol can affect heart rate variability

#94

Post by 1_player »

ulnarkressty wrote: post #85
1_player wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gone 100% carnivore

Would very much like to try this for myself, but I would rather look for a more sustainable diet. Do you think it was a matter of missing nutrients, or rather intolerance of some sort to the carbohydrate sources?

Massive inflammation due to multiple unknown factors, making me even more intolerant to the simplest of food and spices. Carnivore is basically the ultimate elimination diet.

Oh yeah, and my brain works noticeably better than it has for the past 15 years. It's 100% reproducible for me, but I just need a lapse of judgement, the wrong food, and it's back to the dark pit of doom and extreme tiredness.

Re: Surprisingly little alcohol can affect heart rate variability

#95

Post by nradov »

serverholic wrote: post #92
nradov wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're totally missing the point. If the study relies on subject reported data then there's no proper control regardless of number of subjects. More funding won't fix that quality problem.

Why are you assuming this hypothetical study will rely on subject reported data?

What other method is there to gather nutritional data? The researchers either have to confine and monitor the subjects in a controlled environment, or leave them loose and rely on subject reported data. Maybe someday we'll have better technical solutions but for now those are the only practical options.

If you have a better approach for study design then I'm sure nutrition researchers would love to hear it.

Re: Surprisingly little alcohol can affect heart rate variability

#96

Post by angrais »

1_player wrote: post #94
ulnarkressty wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would very much like to try this for myself, but I would rather look for a more sustainable diet. Do you think it was a matter of missing nutrients, or rather intolerance of some sort to the carbohydrate sources?

Massive inflammation due to multiple unknown factors, making me even more intolerant to the simplest of food and spices. Carnivore is basically the ultimate elimination diet. Oh yeah, and my brain works noticeably better than it has for the past 15 years. It's 100% reproducible for me, but I just need a lapse of judgement, the wrong food, and it's back to the dark pit of doom and extreme tiredness.

How do you know it's the increase of meat and not another factor, such as prior consumption of grains or such?

Re: Surprisingly little alcohol can affect heart rate variability

#97

Post by serverholic »

nradov wrote: post #95
serverholic wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you assuming this hypothetical study will rely on subject reported data?

What other method is there to gather nutritional data? The researchers either have to confine and monitor the subjects in a controlled environment, or leave them loose and rely on subject reported data. Maybe someday we'll have better technical solutions but for now those are the only practical options. If you have a better approach for study design then I'm sure nutrition researchers would love to hear it.

You're making so many assumptions in your posts.

Yes, to do a proper RCT you need to confine and monitor subjects in a controlled environment. YOU used the word "years" and nobody ever suggested a study that long. If you're implying that you need a study that long to gather meaningful results then that's just simply not true.

Let me put this plainly, you can design RCTs that are:

A) Safe for participants.

B) Aren't too long.

C) Don't rely on subject reported data.

D) Still give meaningful results.

These are not mutually exclusive and they are done all the time. These are gold-standard experiments in the nutrition field.

Like you said, they are expensive to do and usually only have a small number of subjects. That's why I'm suggesting that wealthy governments should collaborate to fund massive-scale trials at maximum quality.

Re: Surprisingly little alcohol can affect heart rate variability

#98

Post by nradov »

serverholic wrote: post #97
nradov wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What other method is there to gather nutritional data? The researchers either have to confine and monitor the subjects in a controlled environment, or leave them loose and rely on subject reported data. Maybe someday we'll have better technical solutions but for now those are the only practical options. If you have a better approach for study design then I'm sure nutrition researchers would love to hear it.

You're making so many assumptions in your posts. Yes, to do a proper RCT you need to confine and monitor subjects in a controlled environment. YOU used the word "years" and nobody ever suggested a study that long. If you're implying that you need a study that long to gather meaningful results then that's just simply not true. Let me put this plainly, you can design RCTs that are: A) Safe for participants. B) Aren't t…

In the general case "B" and "D" are mutually exclusive. For the important questions in human nutrition like whether a diet high in saturated fat increases the risk of all cause mortality it takes many years for significant effects to appear.

Re: Surprisingly little alcohol can affect heart rate variability

#99

Post by filoeleven »

AlwaysRock wrote: post #37

Booze is not good for you. If you think you are dependent on it or are concerned with the impact it has on your life try stopping. Stopping changed my life greatly.

What if stopping feels like more effort than it’s worth?

Re: Surprisingly little alcohol can affect heart rate variability

#100

Post by tayo42 »

watwut wrote: post #87
Eddy_Viscosity2 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That 'alcohol reduces stress' is true short term, its not so much true long term. Think of those nasal sprays that reduce congestion. They absolutely do that, breathe that stuff in and it opens your airway real good, but at the same time it irritates those tissues so when the effect wears off, the airway becomes even more blocked than before because of the inflammation from the irritation. Alcohol does a similar thin…

I did not encountered such sprays. The ones I used worked and once they were not needed I stopped - typically in few days.

You can just look up and verify it then

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/allergies/exp...

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