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Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years

bbc.com

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Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years

#91

Post by sudosysgen »

hcurtiss wrote: post #78
FredPret wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think Central Africa is less corrupt and more just than the USA? Jeez, that takes the cake hey. I’m from Africa, have left now, and this is pure nonsense. The USA doesn’t have to be literally perfect for it to be a good place.

Same. I help put deals together with some experience in SE Asia. The ability to enforce contract and property rights in the US, with ready access to the courts and relatively clear rules, sets the US apart in terms of business efficiency and predictability. In my assessment, it's a large part of what's made the US so prosperous. In contrast, dealing with corrupt officials in smaller countries in SE Asia is just wild.

Well yes, this is the problem. The US legal system is great if you're dealing with massive amounts of money in the hopes of making more money.

Other aspects are much worse.

Also, most legal systems are generally good for this purpose, you just have to use your money judiciously in bribes instead of lawyer's fees.

Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years

#92

Post by AnthonBerg »

duxup wrote: post #71
eastbayjake wrote: post #38

The Egyptian legal system is not known for its fairness... the World Justice Project ranks it 125 of 128 surveyed countries, in last place out of 8 countries in the Middle East[1] Similarly (and tragically) the Syrian government is not known for its compassion towards its distressed citizens. [1] https://worldjusticeproject.org/rule-of-law-index/country/Eg...

>World Justice Project ranks it 125 of 128 surveyed countries Man considering the scale here that's horrific. But I guess that would explain a process here where they seem to punish someone... 'just because', and with no value coming from the process at all. It's just injustice for no reason at all.... I can understand corruption to some extent. They get something, but punish this guy for no value, I don't get it.

I can think of two incentives for punishing this guy for no value: First, it will appear that they have “done something about it”, say, to their superiors. Second, some people also feel good if they can put someone down or enforce a loss on someone; It’s a stunted heuristic for them “winning”.

So there is very clear value in it. If the harm is disregarded.

Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years

#93

Post by monocasa »

hcurtiss wrote: post #78
FredPret wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think Central Africa is less corrupt and more just than the USA? Jeez, that takes the cake hey. I’m from Africa, have left now, and this is pure nonsense. The USA doesn’t have to be literally perfect for it to be a good place.

Same. I help put deals together with some experience in SE Asia. The ability to enforce contract and property rights in the US, with ready access to the courts and relatively clear rules, sets the US apart in terms of business efficiency and predictability. In my assessment, it's a large part of what's made the US so prosperous. In contrast, dealing with corrupt officials in smaller countries in SE Asia is just wild.

Not once, but multiple times I've had police simply steal cash from me in the states. Not civil forfeiture, but the cash in a wallet disappears on it's way to where it's held temporarily, no crimes involved. And from rich areas like Boulder, CO.

I have not seen the lack of low level corruption in the states compared to other countries. Like in other countries they simply confine their corruption to those powerless to do anything about it.

Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years

#94

Post by dragonwriter »

avidphantasm wrote: post #87

If only he could have managed to get the ship wedged sideways in the Suez Canal. They would’ve helped him our real quick.

No, they wouldn’t; heck, his case has gotten attention recently because the crew of the Ever Given has become similarly trapped, and his case has been held up as an example of what might happen to that crew if the dispute between the SCA, and the owners and operators of the Ever Given continues.

Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years

#95

Post by [deleted] »

avidphantasm wrote: post #84
hcurtiss wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. I help put deals together with some experience in SE Asia. The ability to enforce contract and property rights in the US, with ready access to the courts and relatively clear rules, sets the US apart in terms of business efficiency and predictability. In my assessment, it's a large part of what's made the US so prosperous. In contrast, dealing with corrupt officials in smaller countries in SE Asia is just wild.

Right the US has rule of law for businesses. What about poor people? Not so much. See: civil asset forfeiture, being jailed for petty fines you can’t afford to pay, insane fees used by low-tax jurisdictions to fund their courts.

[deleted]

Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years

#96

Post by FredPret »

avidphantasm wrote: post #84
hcurtiss wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. I help put deals together with some experience in SE Asia. The ability to enforce contract and property rights in the US, with ready access to the courts and relatively clear rules, sets the US apart in terms of business efficiency and predictability. In my assessment, it's a large part of what's made the US so prosperous. In contrast, dealing with corrupt officials in smaller countries in SE Asia is just wild.

Right the US has rule of law for businesses. What about poor people? Not so much. See: civil asset forfeiture, being jailed for petty fines you can’t afford to pay, insane fees used by low-tax jurisdictions to fund their courts.

It’s certainly not perfect, I agree with your specific points. But it’s not even at all comparable with the third world.

It’s vastly better to a degree that left me totally mindfucked for years after I moved to the first world.

Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years

#97

Post by quasarj »

biot wrote: post #65

> "And I can't find a single person on this planet - and I've tried - to replace him." I’ll do it for $10M/year, paid in advance of course due to the company’s financial situation. Oh, he probably means for whatever meager wages they were paying this guy. Yeah, no wonder.

You think he's getting paid?!

Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years

#98

Post by jessaustin »

user3939382 wrote: post #53
eastbayjake wrote: post #38

The Egyptian legal system is not known for its fairness... the World Justice Project ranks it 125 of 128 surveyed countries, in last place out of 8 countries in the Middle East[1] Similarly (and tragically) the Syrian government is not known for its compassion towards its distressed citizens. [1] https://worldjusticeproject.org/rule-of-law-index/country/Eg...

Most people may think I’m being pessimistic and jaded. But I think these rankings are hilarious (in a bad sense). Just like the corruption rankings that come out. The US gets a green square and a high rank, smaller countries are corrupt and unfair. I could fill up paragraphs about how corrupt and dysfunctional our (US) legal and political systems are. Meanwhile I spent a long time in Central Africa (a red square coun…

Not to mention the fact that for any poor, poorly-ranked nation, it's likely that USA actions there include dropping bombs, assassinating socialist-leaning democratically-elected leadership, stationing troops and/or spooks, encouraging theft of natural resources, funding criminal terrorist anti-state groups, etc.

Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years

#99

Post by randyrand »

modeless wrote: post #9

Why would you write an article like this without a word describing the legal consequences of leaving the ship? What consequence would be worth four years of your life? Edit: a more useful video linked below explains that the authorities confiscated his passport. That would make it difficult to leave. Though I'd probably try anyway after a year of that.

But you are not stranded on Egyptian land. You're at sea. Why not just take some boat home? Or to the nearest non-Egypt country.

Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years

#100

Post by jsmith45 »

> The Aman's owners, Tylos Shipping and Marine Services, told the BBC they had tried to help Mohammed but that their hands were tied.

> "I can't force a judge to remove the legal guardianship," a representative told us. "And I can't find a single person on this planet - and I've tried - to replace him."

Well, obviously nobody would volunteer unless things were going to change.

But surely the ships operating company had violated their operating agreement, giving the owner grounds to "evict" them, find a new operator, get the updated safety equipment and classification certificates, and pay for the fuel. Once that was done surely the ship would be unseized, and with a new crew installed, Egypt ought to be happy to cancel the guardianship.

This was all especially true back before it ran aground.

It would also seem like this all would be very much in the owner's interest as letting the ship decay cannot be good for the ships value, and they probably were not getting paid rent by the current operator for this.

But I'm guessing there is a lot more to this that the BBC article has left out.

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