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Waking Up During Surgery (2019)

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Re: Waking Up During Surgery (2019)

#91

Post by ectopod »

StavrosK wrote: post #77
yboris wrote: post #72

Here's something worse: for a while, curare was used on children when undergoing surgery. Turns out that rather than anesthetizing them, it simply paralyzed them. Kids came out of surgery describing how they felt the surgery, and doctors just insisted that that was post-surgery nightmares.

That's too bad, it seems like a pretty easy to confirm, but I suspect nobody gave a crap.

This is reminiscent of the lethal injection protocol. It consists of:

* A fast- and short-acting barbiturate to knock you out.

* A muscle relaxant to stop you breathing.

* Potassium chloride to induce a heart attack. It incidentally causes great pain.

If the effect of the barbiturate wore off too quickly this would be an appalling death. Does it? Quite possibly. The creator of the protocol said

> It never occurred to me when we set this up that we'd have complete idiots administering the drugs

But nobody gives a shit.

Re: Waking Up During Surgery (2019)

#92

Post by StavrosK »

ectopod wrote: post #91
StavrosK wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's too bad, it seems like a pretty easy to confirm, but I suspect nobody gave a crap.

This is reminiscent of the lethal injection protocol. It consists of: * A fast- and short-acting barbiturate to knock you out. * A muscle relaxant to stop you breathing. * Potassium chloride to induce a heart attack. It incidentally causes great pain. If the effect of the barbiturate wore off too quickly this would be an appalling death. Does it? Quite possibly. The creator of the protocol said > It never occurred to…

I wonder if a heroin overdose would be better.

Re: Waking Up During Surgery (2019)

#93

Post by UncleOxidant »

lr4444lr wrote: post #28

Just an anecdote: I once had a procedure that required I be under a "light" general anesthesia (don't recall which). I was generally paranoid at the time though about everything, and strapped an audio recorder to my leg secretly. Turns out I did wake up mid procedure (the audio suggests doctor and nurse rushed to stop me from touching the area of operation of my face, and that I was distressed) but as the doctor prom…

I remember waking up from general anesthesia during removal of my wisdom teeth. The oral surgeon seemed kind of surprised, cursed and asked the assistant to give me more anesthesia. I didn't find it all that traumatic either at the time, but I was only awake for a minute or so.

Re: Waking Up During Surgery (2019)

#94

Post by ornornor »

I assumed that this was part of the reason why parients heart rate is monitored. If you’re paralyzed from the drugs but awake, conscious, in lain, and panicking then your heart rate would shoot way up and that would alert the operating team that something isn’t right, wouldn’t it?

Re: Waking Up During Surgery (2019)

#96

Post by LordGrey »

Another anecdotal data point:

I received full dental replacement implants (the all-on-four style) a couple of years ago. During the procedure, I came out of it enough to remember trying to get "something" out of my mouth that was bothering me, and a nurse literally shouting at me to stop.

My wife was waiting for me and could see down the hallway where my room was. She said that at one point the doctor came out of my room gagging and holding his throat. After a few minutes, he went back in.

Later, we discovered that I fought everyone in the room. I had punched the doctor in the throat, tried to rip my IVs out, etc. The incident I remember (the yelling) was just a part of it all.

I've since read up on anesthesia and the subject is both fascinating and scary ("science with a lot of art mixed in").

Re: Waking Up During Surgery (2019)

#97

Post by codemonkey-zeta »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #73
lr4444lr wrote: post #28

Just an anecdote: I once had a procedure that required I be under a "light" general anesthesia (don't recall which). I was generally paranoid at the time though about everything, and strapped an audio recorder to my leg secretly. Turns out I did wake up mid procedure (the audio suggests doctor and nurse rushed to stop me from touching the area of operation of my face, and that I was distressed) but as the doctor prom…

Sorry, but there is nothing else to say except that you are extremely wrong. This kind of belief is exactly why male circumcision is not seen for the evil that it is. Please try to consider the possibility that trauma without conscious memory can have disastrous results - as other commenters are trying to get you to understand...

> you are extremely wrong

Can you point to evidence suggesting this? Not trying to be adversarial, just genuinely curious since almost everyone in this thread is just exchanging anecdata.

Re: Waking Up During Surgery (2019)

#98

Post by anitil »

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #89
lr4444lr wrote: post #28

Just an anecdote: I once had a procedure that required I be under a "light" general anesthesia (don't recall which). I was generally paranoid at the time though about everything, and strapped an audio recorder to my leg secretly. Turns out I did wake up mid procedure (the audio suggests doctor and nurse rushed to stop me from touching the area of operation of my face, and that I was distressed) but as the doctor prom…

My wife has actually had both, on separate occasions. About 15 years ago, she smashed her wrist, breaking it into multiple pieces. In the ER, they explained that the wouldn't give her an anesthetic to push things into place for a splint (to hold it together until surgery could be scheduled), but they'd give her meds so she would forget the pain. I was absolutely amazed that it worked. She vaguely remembers telling th…

> Training horses is not for the faint of heart :-)

I was going to guess a motorbike, but I'm pretty sure horses are even worse!

Re: Waking Up During Surgery (2019)

#99

Post by pmiller2 »

nefitty wrote: post #75
LeifCarrotson wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if the journalist is asking the wrong people. Instead of interviewing patients supposed to be under drug-induced amnesia, and finding the few who remembered, ask the doctors and nurses who are being asked to restrain patients in distress. A specialist in a procedure that requires light general anesthesia would, if this was true, have done surgery on thousands of people in various degrees of distress. To me,…

My initial intuition to your last question was, “No, suffering usually entails some sort of looking-back process that places the pain in that context.” I then realized that animals can suffer, and either I’m confounding Buddhist and Western psychological definitions of suffering, or suffering doesn’t require consciousness of it occurring for it to be suffering. I hope that makes sense!

The difference is that when an animal suffers, they retain memories. One only need to consider something like this story I heard about a dog on Reddit, who was scared of obese people and men. Turns out, the dog was severely abused by a 500-lb man who was its former owner.

Re: Waking Up During Surgery (2019)

#100

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

anitil wrote: post #98
HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife has actually had both, on separate occasions. About 15 years ago, she smashed her wrist, breaking it into multiple pieces. In the ER, they explained that the wouldn't give her an anesthetic to push things into place for a splint (to hold it together until surgery could be scheduled), but they'd give her meds so she would forget the pain. I was absolutely amazed that it worked. She vaguely remembers telling th…

> Training horses is not for the faint of heart :-) I was going to guess a motorbike, but I'm pretty sure horses are even worse!

Probably. Motorcycles can't think for themselves.
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