Prions • Hacker News Board

Re: Prions

#91

Post by ortusdux » Mon, Apr 19, 2021, 3:42 PM UTC

Scandiravian wrote: post #72

ortusdux wrote: post #37

prion infections are always eventually fatal, there is no cure, and they are contagious. The majority of research into prions happens post mortem, and is usually trying to pin down the cause of death. Statistically, there must be prions that are not lethal. I'm reminded of the issues with people that work at pig processing plants, who had the job of blowing the brains out of the skull cavity with compressed air. Many…

I think that's an interesting point. Do you have a source for your statement, that most of the research happens post mortem? It makes sense to me that non-lethal cases wouldn't be discovered, as it's probably prohibitively expensive to screen for non-lethal/dormant infections. It could also be that the progression is so slow for most people, that they die from unrelated causes before the disease becomes a problem (th…

The first promising blood test for mad cow (vCJD) was developed in 2016. Prior to that, "The only current method to diagnose vCJD is to perform a biopsy or a postmortem analysis of brain tissue." (NIH 2017).

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/new-met...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5538786/

Scientists have since developed a promising method that relies on analyzing the retina.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/scientists-ide...

Re: Prions

#92

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Apr 19, 2021, 3:43 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #75

dnautics wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cwd is essentially the same as bse and cjd and scrapie. It's actually the one that you have to worry about the least. For unknown reasons, there is not species crossover between deer and cow/sheep/humans (I was briefly investigating the molecular mechanisms for this but finished my phd before getting results). As for why the grazing animals can spread prion, my guess is that the prion protein is highly concentrated i…

"there is not species crossover between deer and cow/sheep/humans" I thought the theory was that CWD started in a domestic herd that was raised in an area that previously had scrapie infected sheep?

[deleted]

Re: Prions

#93

Post by boringg » Mon, Apr 19, 2021, 3:44 PM UTC

dnautics wrote: post #9

purpleflame1257 wrote: post #3

Counterpoint: The Fore people of NZ had kuru from ritual cannibalism. Then they stopped. Eventually, the disease stopped too. Prions are nasty, but we've had 3.5 billion years of protein folding and none of it has ended the world yet.

This comment is spot on (I'm a former prion researcher).

As a former prion researcher, do you eat meat or do you have reservations around that?

Re: Prions

#94

Post by ASalazarMX » Mon, Apr 19, 2021, 3:45 PM UTC

derekp7 wrote: post #47

beiller wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it was more deadly it would spread less quickly. That's how diseases work from my vague university memories of an epidemiology course. They are on a spectrum of deadly to contagious.

What actually causes this though? For example, take something like HIV that takes a long time to show symptoms, but have an airborne version of it. Do the things that make viruses airborne also keep them from having a long gestation period and also highly lethal?

This is such an interesting question, I hope it doesn't get buried before someone knowledgeable answers it.

We all know the more aggressive a pathogen is, the more it paints itself into a corner because it's burning its bridges. Something like airborne HIV would be really scary.

My guess is that airborne diseases are not weaker, but that evolution has selected for resistance against those because they spread fast among the population.

Re: Prions

#95

Post by dnautics » Mon, Apr 19, 2021, 3:45 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #75

dnautics wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cwd is essentially the same as bse and cjd and scrapie. It's actually the one that you have to worry about the least. For unknown reasons, there is not species crossover between deer and cow/sheep/humans (I was briefly investigating the molecular mechanisms for this but finished my phd before getting results). As for why the grazing animals can spread prion, my guess is that the prion protein is highly concentrated i…

"there is not species crossover between deer and cow/sheep/humans" I thought the theory was that CWD started in a domestic herd that was raised in an area that previously had scrapie infected sheep?

These things can also happen autogenously (there is sporadic cjd) so who knows.

Re: Prions

#96

Post by cyberlurker » Mon, Apr 19, 2021, 3:45 PM UTC

virmundi wrote: post #28

[flagged]

The abstract caught my attention and so I kept reading. The further I read, the less reputable the article came across.

The following quote from that paper reads a lot like typical anti-vax garbage:

“Many have raised the warning that the current epidemic of COVID-19 is actually the result of an bioweapons attack released in part by individuals in the United States government [10,11]. Such a theory is not far fetched given that the 2001 anthrax attack in the US originated at Fort Detrick, a US army bioweapon facility. Because the FBI’s anthrax investigation was closed against the advice of the lead FBI agent in the case, there are likely conspirators still working in the US government. In such a scenario the primary focus of stopping a bioweapons attack must be to apprehend the conspirators or the attacks will never cease. Approving a vaccine, utilizing novel RNA technology without extensive testing is extremely dangerous. The vaccine could be a bioweapon and even more dangerous than the original infection.”

Re: Prions

#97

Post by dnautics » Mon, Apr 19, 2021, 3:46 PM UTC

boringg wrote: post #93

dnautics wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment is spot on (I'm a former prion researcher).

As a former prion researcher, do you eat meat or do you have reservations around that?

I don't have reservations about it. I'm also not generally afraid to die.

Re: Prions

#98

Post by eggy » Mon, Apr 19, 2021, 3:47 PM UTC

dnautics wrote: post #9

purpleflame1257 wrote: post #3

Counterpoint: The Fore people of NZ had kuru from ritual cannibalism. Then they stopped. Eventually, the disease stopped too. Prions are nasty, but we've had 3.5 billion years of protein folding and none of it has ended the world yet.

This comment is spot on (I'm a former prion researcher).

Curious, I had heard of research where the brain of a sheep that was infected with a prion disease (not sure which), was burned to ash, and that ash placed on the exposed brain of a healthy sheep (via trepanation?), and it also developed the prion-caused disease. Is this anecdotal nonsense, or is it close to a real study done on prion diseases? Thanks!

Re: Prions

#99

Post by dnautics » Mon, Apr 19, 2021, 3:47 PM UTC

nikartix wrote: post #79

dnautics wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment is spot on (I'm a former prion researcher).

How old are these proteins? If the do spread and remain dormant in soil they would have been a threat for entire existence of life on this planet. Exponential growth would only cause every place, especially a bio-reach locations to be full of it as food chain making more and more of the protein and animals remains are not handled in any way in the wild.

They're old. Yeast have genes that transmit information generationally via the same mechanism. Probably the same "exponential" mechanism is involved in diabetes, alzheimer's, melanin storage (not a disease, the actual normal process).

Proteins, eventually degrade, even prions. We probably have an enzyme that accelerates degradation of them (my bet is it's insulin-degrading enzyme).

Re: Prions

#100

Post by hannasanarion » Mon, Apr 19, 2021, 3:47 PM UTC

enchiridion wrote: post #81

im3w1l wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In order to evolve there has to be some kind of genetic information passed on to descendants. But for prions there is no such mechanism. A lower energy state is assumed and that's that.

There does not have to be genetic information for evolution. Evolution only requires "descent with modification". DNA is a mechanism for this, but it is not necessarily the only one.

And prions don't have descent with modification. It's a regular mammal brain protein that got accidentally constructed backwards. There's nothing to pass on, nothing to modify.