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Monkey MindPong

neuralink.com

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Re: Monkey MindPong

#91

Post by manmal »

gopiandcode wrote: post #47
mlindner wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused why you'd even feel that way? Neuralink goes into a LOT of effort for animals to feel good. Animal studies happen all the time for medical testing, and from what I hear Neuralink is much better than the average. As they said in the video, the animal is doing the activity of it of it's own free will. They don't harm the animal if it refuses to participate. Are you familiar with the term "luddite"?

I initially thought GP was being overly hyperbolic, but after watching the video I can't say I fully disagree. It's not so much the animal studies aspect, but rather the fact that they used bluetooth via a mobile phone to connect to the monkey. That aspect of connecting via bluetooth from a phone is most conventionally used to interact with replaceable commodities such as wireless speakers/headphones, but here it's b…

I‘m working for a company which makes apps connecting to insulin pens and pumps via Bluetooth. Once you get into the mindset of connecting medical devices to your phone, this feeling of cheap commodity entirely disappears. Bluetooth and phones can be awesome tools, and if implemented with enough verification and validation, are sufficiently safe.

Re: Monkey MindPong

#92

Post by sangnoir »

lwansbrough wrote: post #83

The next step for Neuralink is write mode. No, not writing memories, but reprogramming motor function. If you can capture the signals of limb movement synapses for say, a paraplegic, you can read those signals and convert them into write signals in another part of the brain responsible for the actual motor function. Over time, that neuron pathway gets reinforced and could potentially teach a person how to walk again.…

> The next step for Neuralink is write mode. No, not writing memories, but reprogramming motor function. If you can capture the signals of limb movement synapses for say, a paraplegic, you can read those signals and convert them into write signals in another part of the brain responsible for the actual motor function. Over time, that neuron pathway gets reinforced and could potentially teach a person how to walk again.

Or - hear me out - for a small bonus, you could volunteer for a second shift in the Amazon warehouse while you sleep. An algorithm right bits to drive your body as you shuffle unevenly from station to station in the dark (no need for lights, the computer knows where things are). They can call it the Neuralink Autopilot.

Edit: would it be possible to externally trigger firing of motor neurons in someone who is brain-dead? The future might be a little Ancillary Justice-y, but with a strong "posthumous work contract" capitalist flavor to it.

Re: Monkey MindPong

#93

Post by anonytrary »

lwansbrough wrote: post #83

The next step for Neuralink is write mode. No, not writing memories, but reprogramming motor function. If you can capture the signals of limb movement synapses for say, a paraplegic, you can read those signals and convert them into write signals in another part of the brain responsible for the actual motor function. Over time, that neuron pathway gets reinforced and could potentially teach a person how to walk again.…

MIT "wrote" memories (the solution to a maze) into mice/rats using photons[0].

Neuralink in "write" mode could be engineered to do the same thing by introducing an EM current that changes over time. In the past, I've worked with "read-only", passive tetrodes, but the opposite is possible from a physics standpoint. Moving charges is just another way of saying "propagating photons". I think there's not only precedent, but there's proof that this can be done.

The hard part is figuring out the biology (for a given memory, you still need to calculate the correct I(t) that actually implants it), which is a relatively unexplored domain. Neuralink is centuries away from using "write" mode to turn everyone into Neo, but much simpler use-cases can still make a huge impact within the next couple decades.

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/jul/25/false-memory...

Re: Monkey MindPong

#94

Post by anonytrary »

jm4 wrote: post #35

That was difficult to watch. While the technology is impressive, it is sickening to watch. The part where they can pair the phone via bluetooth made me want to vomit. It is obviously unnatural, but I can't quite put my finger on it. Something about seeing that animal, oblivious to what's happening, and that implant with the ability to directly record thoughts and/or remote control. The whole thing doesn't sit well wi…

This is nothing compared to what we were doing in lab several years ago. Neuralink is the least invasive of the invasive ways to conduct this research. I had to put animals down, because they would be defunct after trying to remove those bulkier devices. Neuralink is relatively humane, speaking as someone who has seen this technology in its infancy.

Re: Monkey MindPong

#95

Post by garmaine »

visarga wrote: post #39
jm4 wrote: post #35

That was difficult to watch. While the technology is impressive, it is sickening to watch. The part where they can pair the phone via bluetooth made me want to vomit. It is obviously unnatural, but I can't quite put my finger on it. Something about seeing that animal, oblivious to what's happening, and that implant with the ability to directly record thoughts and/or remote control. The whole thing doesn't sit well wi…

> The part where they can pair the phone via bluetooth made me want to vomit. I had the same reaction. I just recently had a lot of trouble pairing Airpods to Macbook (both no more than 2 years old). If Apple can't make it work between their own devices, it's doomed. A piece of shit technology, a black stain on the whole stack. The demo is impressive otherwise, and I don't think it's weird to control a device with yo…

Btw this appears to be a common failure mode for AirPods. You need new ones :(

Yay for planned obsolescence.

Re: Monkey MindPong

#96

Post by aparsons »

swordsmith wrote: post #69
visarga wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The part where they can pair the phone via bluetooth made me want to vomit. I had the same reaction. I just recently had a lot of trouble pairing Airpods to Macbook (both no more than 2 years old). If Apple can't make it work between their own devices, it's doomed. A piece of shit technology, a black stain on the whole stack. The demo is impressive otherwise, and I don't think it's weird to control a device with yo…

> Maybe it will be able to extract speech directly from the brain, which is orders of magnitude harder than controlling a joystick. Check out https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-019-1119-1 And yes it is definitely orders of magnitude harder than controlling a joystick

Imagine the wonders it would do for interrogation /s

Re: Monkey MindPong

#97

Post by anonytrary »

sdwr wrote: post #31

This is honest-to-god magic. Some cyberpunk, neuromancer, hardcore reality-bending shit. The brain is the final frontier, if technology gets a foothold in there things are going to get WILD. Also, as this stuff gets further along, there's going to be large incentives for unethical testing. Rockets can be tested with unmanned flights, but you can't really dry run brain implants.

This isn't even the start of it. Everything in this video could be done with a non-invasive EEG, and has been possible for decades. This is a teaser video. The real magic of Neuralink has not been witnessed yet.

Re: Monkey MindPong

#98

Post by klintcho »

lwansbrough wrote: post #83

The next step for Neuralink is write mode. No, not writing memories, but reprogramming motor function. If you can capture the signals of limb movement synapses for say, a paraplegic, you can read those signals and convert them into write signals in another part of the brain responsible for the actual motor function. Over time, that neuron pathway gets reinforced and could potentially teach a person how to walk again.…

I was about to say that the Link (Neuralink) is already bidirectional, so they should already be able to spike each electron as well as read from it. But I had troubles finding any sources supporting this, so I'm not so sure anymore. I know that Elon talked about this in the early presentations though.

Re: Monkey MindPong

#99

Post by knowaveragejoe »

lwansbrough wrote: post #83

The next step for Neuralink is write mode. No, not writing memories, but reprogramming motor function. If you can capture the signals of limb movement synapses for say, a paraplegic, you can read those signals and convert them into write signals in another part of the brain responsible for the actual motor function. Over time, that neuron pathway gets reinforced and could potentially teach a person how to walk again.…

I know there's a myriad of reasons why people lose the ability to walk, but are there any in which it's a matter of what sounds like memory degradation(i.e. you need to remind a particular set of neurons what they previously "knew")?

Total non-expert here and legitimately curious.

Re: Monkey MindPong

#100

Post by [deleted] »

dayre wrote: post #51
mlindner wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused why you'd even feel that way? Neuralink goes into a LOT of effort for animals to feel good. Animal studies happen all the time for medical testing, and from what I hear Neuralink is much better than the average. As they said in the video, the animal is doing the activity of it of it's own free will. They don't harm the animal if it refuses to participate. Are you familiar with the term "luddite"?

Nothing says feel'n good and free will like banana smoothies and forced brain implants.

[deleted]
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