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Google’s copying of the Java SE API was fair use [pdf]

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Re: Google’s copying of the Java SE API was fair use [pdf]

#91

Oh, I forgot this little apocalypse was hanging over our heads. It's good to see some sanity.

And it's kinda nice to see it come to an end. I wonder if both google and oracle are looking at the bills from their lawyers and thinking about it like the destruction at the somme.

It's great for software, it'll be an interesting documentary someday. And congratulations to all the lawyers for making a ton of money.

Re: Google’s copying of the Java SE API was fair use [pdf]

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a large scale defeat of the GPL and dual licensing, so I'm not sure how this could be anything but a sad day for sustainable open source development. If you're big enough and have enough lawyers, there's no reason to license software you want to build on.

How does this ruling interact with GPL?

Perhaps this

https://github.com/JoshCheek/clisp/blob/master/doc/Why-CLISP...

Re: Google’s copying of the Java SE API was fair use [pdf]

#93
post #27

From the dissent: "In the 1990s, Oracle created a programming language called Java..." Sun Microsystems was acquired in 2010... I guess I should give Thomas the benefit of the doubt that he intended the statement to apply to Oracle's owned IP & not be a historical account of the language's creation and creators, but this rubbed me the wrong way.

Not surprised at all the Thomas and Alito are in that dissent..

Why is it that you aren't surprised?

Re: Google’s copying of the Java SE API was fair use [pdf]

#94

First of all, very good news. Second of all, what does this mean for Fuchsia, Dart, and related projects? I always assumed they were a hedge against Google having to pay exorbitant licensing fees to Oracle. Now that the threat has disappeared, will those projects be sunsetted too?

Given the investment going into Flutter for cross-platform mobile (and now desktop and web) development, I would be very surprised to see Dart get Google Readered.

Re: Google’s copying of the Java SE API was fair use [pdf]

#95
post #27

From the dissent: "In the 1990s, Oracle created a programming language called Java..." Sun Microsystems was acquired in 2010... I guess I should give Thomas the benefit of the doubt that he intended the statement to apply to Oracle's owned IP & not be a historical account of the language's creation and creators, but this rubbed me the wrong way.

Also from the first page of the dissent: "A different company, Sun, created the library. But because Oracle later purchased Sun, for simplicity I refer to both companies as Oracle."

Re: Google’s copying of the Java SE API was fair use [pdf]

#96

It's interesting reading Thomas' dissent. As per typical Thomas appears to be arguing that it's the letter of the law that matters, whereas it's the majority opinion that the motivations and substance of the law are primary. Hackers and programmers tend to try and read the law like computer code to be "hacked" and exploited based on the letter of the law. So you'd expect us to be more sympathetic to Thomas' view. So…

I'm normally with the textualists on the court on the question of how we interpret the law, but in the case of copyright, the concept of "fair use" is specifically intended as an "extension point" where the courts could do what seemed right in changing circumstances. I like strongly typed languages too, but there are legitimate uses for void*.

Re: Google’s copying of the Java SE API was fair use [pdf]

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not surprised at all the Thomas and Alito are in that dissent..

I was under the impression that a dissent has to be written, even if they all agree in the majority opinion/ruling?

No, a dissent means that one or more of the judges disagreed with the majority ruling.

Re: Google’s copying of the Java SE API was fair use [pdf]

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not surprised at all the Thomas and Alito are in that dissent..

I was under the impression that a dissent has to be written, even if they all agree in the majority opinion/ruling?

No; in order to write a dissent, you have to disagree with the result.

If you write a separate opinion while voting with the majority, that's a "concurrence", not a dissent, and those aren't mandatory either.

Re: Google’s copying of the Java SE API was fair use [pdf]

#100

> "Google copied approximately 11,500 lines of declaring code from the API, which amounts to virtually all the declaring code needed to call up hundreds of different tasks. Those 11,500 lines, however, are only 0.4 percent of the entire API at issue, which consists of 2.86 million total lines. In considering “the amount and substantiality of the portion used” in this case, the 11,500 lines of code should be viewed as…

It is fascinating that code is now being measured quantitatively. Number of "lines of code".
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