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Barrier Reef doomed as up to 99% of coral at risk, report finds

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Re: Barrier Reef doomed as up to 99% of coral at risk, report finds

#91

Post by jeffbee »

gkop wrote: post #87
jeffbee wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would be “stunned” by 1% of the Great Barrier Reef and wouldn’t notice the missing 99%. This bias is the central topic of the book “The Once and Future World”.

Would you clarify your point? I think you may be saying that the reef could already have been dead to a large extent at the time of parent commenter’s visit, but it’s not clear...

Yes, that’s what I’m saying. Just because you went to see some natural wonder and were amazed doesn’t imply that it hasn’t been radically degraded.

Re: Barrier Reef doomed as up to 99% of coral at risk, report finds

#92

Post by paulcole »

iujjkfjdkkdkf wrote: post #63
paulcole wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get downvoted everytime I say this, but if someone wants to make a difference: 1. Don’t eat meat. 2. Don’t get in airplanes. 3. Don’t drive a car. 4. Live in as small a house/apartment as you can. 5. Don’t have kids. It turns out that when people ask, “But what can I do?” What they really mean is “What can I do that won’t really inconvenience me that much?”

I realize you're trolling, but there is a positive way to approach this, by looking at what we can do to allow us to maintain quality of living in a sustainable way. Cowering in the dark might be one answer, but why would you want to live that way. Let's invest our energy in understanding how we can do the things that make life worth living, while ensuring that future generations can as well.

I’m not trolling at all. This is how I live.

If you think a big house, a car, kids, flying for vacation, and a steak are what make life worth living, well then enjoy the end of the ride.

Re: Barrier Reef doomed as up to 99% of coral at risk, report finds

#93

Post by paulcole »

samatman wrote: post #68
paulcole wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get downvoted everytime I say this, but if someone wants to make a difference: 1. Don’t eat meat. 2. Don’t get in airplanes. 3. Don’t drive a car. 4. Live in as small a house/apartment as you can. 5. Don’t have kids. It turns out that when people ask, “But what can I do?” What they really mean is “What can I do that won’t really inconvenience me that much?”

So there are two problems with this. One is that you're advocating for a hair-shirt, masochistic lifestyle stripped of all joy. I have no objection to you choosing a vow of poverty, and to pass on children, but don't try and sell it as inconvenience, what you're asking for is basically religious orders. The second problem is, all you've done is reduced demand for those goods you've chosen not to consume. That makes t…

> a hair-shirt, masochistic lifestyle stripped of all joy

> a vow of poverty

I’ll assure you I spend a lot of money on stupid shit I don’t need and I hate my life but it’s not because of these decisions. I thank my chronic illness for that!

Will just ignore the supply and demand argument. So few people live the way I do that it’s clearly not influencing the price of flights or suburban living. Good try though. That’s a new argument I haven’t heard before.

Anyway, enjoy the rest of the ride! Going to be a wild century or so. If you have kids, I hope they have fun.

Re: Barrier Reef doomed as up to 99% of coral at risk, report finds

#94

Post by cam_l »

ghiculescu wrote: post #52

I grew up in Queensland. During school in the late 90s, we were taught the same thing, except the reef was meant to already be gone by today. When I visited a few years ago, it was stunning. Hopefully this report won’t come true either, but it is hard to believe anyone predicting what Australia will be like in 2100. In any case, particularly on a forum like this, we should argue about what technological ideas we can…

I grew up in Queensland too. There have been massive changes to the reef, and the whole coast in my lifetime. Even now it is a shadow of it's former self.

During that time the run off from farming, mining and development has increased markedly. The destruction of forests and mangroves and see grasses had increased. There was a time in the 00's when the rate of forest clearance in Queensland was the highest of anywhere in the developed world.

Technological ideas will do sweet fuck all if the political will is not there. (Unless your technological idea is to change the political will). Not even if there is real money behind those ideas. Need i remind you the gov gave half a billion dollars to a few ex mining executives to 'protect the reef'. It seems previous little had been achieved so far.

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jul/11/a-mocker...

Re: Barrier Reef doomed as up to 99% of coral at risk, report finds

#95

Post by jghn »

lenkite wrote: post #30
foobiter wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

tigers and pandas have such small natural habitats now that they’re effectively extinct in the wild; i’m not advocating for it, but it seems like nothing outside of large scale ecoterrorism can do anything fast enough to save our charismatic megafauna for anything other than morbid exhibition

Actually, wild tiger population has doubled (in India) in the last 12 years. https://www.businessinsider.in/science/environment/news/indi... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-49148174

This is one of those areas where percentage and actual count tell different stories. "doubled" vs "increased by about 1000" are very different stories when viewed in the context of "all the individuals of a species across the globe"

Re: Barrier Reef doomed as up to 99% of coral at risk, report finds

#96

Post by rektide »

Applejinx wrote: post #71
rektide wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that temperature is only part of the problem. Acidification is ongoing, due to increased CO2 in the atmosphere. That's a global problem: the ocean is literally starving for oxygen, everywhere. If the thermohaline cycle in the Atlantic continues slowing down, there will be significantly less water circulating. There's a risk that bigger & bigger parts of the ocean just sit, don't flow, and thus nev…

Nope. Chaos theory says very much the opposite, and our experience is tending to back chaos theory here. I mean yes what you describe would also be bad, but it's not that we're going to see. I can't speak to the thermohaline cycle: perhaps you're describing something that'll happen specifically in the depths of the ocean? Sounds bad. Up here where WE live, the possible extremes of weather are factors of chaotic energ…

Venus is also high energy. There are ferocious winds. But there are no dynamic processes there. Everything is static, perpetual endless howling 200 mph winds, crushing dryness, forever, always.

Mistaking energy for dynamic is a bad mistake. Yes, we are headed towards higher energy. But whether there are any dynamics that will survive, as the extreme conditions rise, is very much the existential question.

Re: Barrier Reef doomed as up to 99% of coral at risk, report finds

#97

Post by tedk-42 »

gkop wrote: post #87
jeffbee wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would be “stunned” by 1% of the Great Barrier Reef and wouldn’t notice the missing 99%. This bias is the central topic of the book “The Once and Future World”.

Would you clarify your point? I think you may be saying that the reef could already have been dead to a large extent at the time of parent commenter’s visit, but it’s not clear...

I agree with the rebbutal. We saw a few bits of the reef and some was stunningly beautiful. Other bits in comparison were heavily bleached and not looking healthy at all.

It's a collective effort from the whole world we'll need to reverse the damage.

Re: Barrier Reef doomed as up to 99% of coral at risk, report finds

#98

Post by NationalPark »

ghiculescu wrote: post #52

I grew up in Queensland. During school in the late 90s, we were taught the same thing, except the reef was meant to already be gone by today. When I visited a few years ago, it was stunning. Hopefully this report won’t come true either, but it is hard to believe anyone predicting what Australia will be like in 2100. In any case, particularly on a forum like this, we should argue about what technological ideas we can…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Barrier_Reef#Protection_... suggests that quite a lot of effort went into improving the water quality and pollution/protection situation, so maybe the takeaway shouldn't be "scientists are lying about climate change" but "actions we take now actually can make a meaningful difference". I still think it's a little optimistic to suggest we won't ruin our planet through unaccounted-for externalities, but it gives me a little hope (and also doesn't, ya know, convey a tone that might encourage the science deniers as your comment might be accused of doing).

On the other hand, while micro-scale interventions can affect pollution and acidification, global temperature rise may be an entirely different beast, and that's what the people in this article are worried about.

Re: Barrier Reef doomed as up to 99% of coral at risk, report finds

#99

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

ghiculescu wrote: post #52

I grew up in Queensland. During school in the late 90s, we were taught the same thing, except the reef was meant to already be gone by today. When I visited a few years ago, it was stunning. Hopefully this report won’t come true either, but it is hard to believe anyone predicting what Australia will be like in 2100. In any case, particularly on a forum like this, we should argue about what technological ideas we can…

I’ve visited a couple different parts in the last 3-4 years. Some parts are still stunning. Others had massive bleaching. The ship I was on had photos of the different sites we dives at. Huge difference in some areas.

Re: Barrier Reef doomed as up to 99% of coral at risk, report finds

#100

Post by adrianN »

TheRealSteel wrote: post #75
greeneggs wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just have to be able to live with yourself, given that your trip (and presumably your lifestyle more generally) is destroying the very thing that you are visiting to admire. That's beyond me.

Civil aviation is 2% of global carbon emissions. It's also one of the hardest things to make clean. Flying is not something people should feel guilty about. We actually can, and probably should, keep civil aviation -- especially seeing as we need to implement carbon capture anyway. Heating your house and eating meat contribute far more to your personal carbon footprint than flying, unless you fly much more than usual…

Aviation makes up a small percentage because globally almost nobody can afford to fly. For me, taking a flight to Australia and back is a good way to double my carbon emissions for the year.
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