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In Stockholm there's currently an IT battle underway

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Re: In Stockholm there's currently an IT battle underway

#91

Post by hutzlibu »

anm89 wrote: post #47
AdrianB1 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cities are ran by politicians that in most cases are too incompetent to do anything better with their lives. When incompetent leaders make decisions, the incompetence is flowing to most, if not everything they do, including this kind of projects. There is no immediate fix for this situation, unless the decision would be made by some kind of city manager or board of experts that are recruited based on competence and h…

I'm sure people will be lining up to take these board positions when the punishment for project failure is prison. Maybe that's a little far, no?

Or why not execute them instead? Worked very well for ages ...

More seriously, there usually are no simple solutions to complex problems. And government is a very complex problem. So many people with so many opinions - and everyone involved afraid to say one wrong word or make one wrong decision. I don't think more fear helps there.

I mean - prison for corruption - yes! But prison for incompetence, no. Then you also have to jail the people who put the incompetent person there in the first place and those people and so on.

Re: In Stockholm there's currently an IT battle underway

#92

Post by Rule35 »

genuine_smiles wrote: post #54
908B64B197 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4. The requirements are often flat out wrong. The Phoenix payroll system comes to mind, the Canadian government tried to shift the blame to IBM, but have their hands tied since IBM delivered exactly what was in the contract. It's just that what the government decided to put in the contract has little to do with how they really do payroll.

> 4. The requirements are often flat out wrong. Isn't this basically a given? I find it hard to imagine that any organization could come up with good, complete requirements before they've had any software written.

Right. But the client should never come up with the detailed spec. If they know what needs to be done it'd literally be faster for them to code it themselves.

They should never produce more than a page or two of specs, outside of the central task itself, because most everything will change when under production anyways. A project like this is big enough that apps became a thing, and fundamentally changed twice, in the lead-up to the actual work.

And all the little things they could control are just bikeshedding, best done by an impartial designer or by A/B tests.

Re: In Stockholm there's currently an IT battle underway

#94

Post by yunohn »

wmf wrote: post #60
hpkuarg wrote: post #28

I wonder how Swedes maintain their reputation of having a well-run, corruption-free public sector?

This doesn't sound like corruption to me and does any government have good IT? Maybe Estonia?

This definitely sounds like corruption, and every gov contract globally is handled similarly. The sooner people realize that their gov is not special, the better.

Re: In Stockholm there's currently an IT battle underway

#95

Post by hutzlibu »

cromka wrote: post #51

"The city's local government, @Stockholmsstad, spent 1 billion Swedish crowns (100 million dollars)" "@Stockholmsstad are now acting like angry toddlers." I'd read between the lines. I don't think it's a hurt ego, not with these numbers. Someone is (continued) to be paid for this to be happening. This reeks corruption.

Well, angry toddlers are also often angry when someone takes something they believe to be theirs. And toddlers often think the whole world is theirs and theirs alone and everyone is here for their amusement .. and if reality tells them different, they can get very mean, too. So - I think the analogue holds somewhat.

Re: In Stockholm there's currently an IT battle underway

#97

Post by hutzlibu »

airhead969 wrote: post #81
duxup wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is open source really a place you would find what I imagine is an enterprise 'do everything' education related IT application? I like the idea but that's not a product I think open source folks ventures to build much?

There are many "do everything" mega solutions like SAP. They're usually terrible because they try to do too much, require changing processes to fit the software, aren't specialized enough in each area for real-world use, or aren't customizable enough. They're often terrible pieces thrown together too quickly under a utopian belief that one app will rule them all and users will just adapt to unusable garbage. There's…

I don't really like to defend SAP, as I had to use it once just for putting in working hours and was horrified by the necessary steps to do so - but afaik SAP is not "terrible pieces quickly thrown together ".

It is rather way overengineered. In such a way, that freshmen to SAP(out of university), get assigned to a project - but for one whole year are basically just have to walk along with the team, without contribution actual code, because they have to understand how it all works together first. (at least thats what I've been told by some people going there)

Sounds glorious and horrifying. I rather did things where I saw actual progress and impact of my work.

Re: In Stockholm there's currently an IT battle underway

#98

Post by hutzlibu »

908B64B197 wrote: post #4

> One parent managed to access other people's private data, leading to @Stockholmsstad being fined for bad security. ... And the fine, levied by bureaucrats paid with taxpayer's money was paid with... Taxpayer's money. “The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.” ― Ronald Reagan

Well, but does this

I'm from [name of big corporation] and I'm here to help.”

really sound any better?

I guess any big entity with lots of power has the same mechanism. Arrogance, intransparency and ignoring or misunderstanding (or knowing better) of the real needs on the people on the base.

Re: In Stockholm there's currently an IT battle underway

#99

Post by stale2002 »

jordanbeiber wrote: post #76
whatthesmack wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't negate the truth conveyed by the quote... government is often horribly inefficient and many people don't want the so-called "help" the government forces upon those people. I certainly know I could manage my retirement funds more efficiently than the government. I dislike all the "help" I see government doing when it often produces worse results than anarchy.

Big companies are often horribly inefficient. A decent democratic government at least over here in Scandinavia, try to make life on average as good as possible for the majority. Funny you should mention pensions... Govt probably knows many or even most regular people are completely uninterested in pensions and/or “the market”. Many could need help or even be forced to set away money they otherwise wouldn’t. This is w…

> A decent democratic government at least over here in Scandinavia, try to make life on average as good as possible for the majority.

Well, the government solution doesn't seem to be working out so well for this app that is being built.

Re: In Stockholm there's currently an IT battle underway

#100

Post by juskrey »

hutzlibu wrote: post #91
anm89 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure people will be lining up to take these board positions when the punishment for project failure is prison. Maybe that's a little far, no?

Or why not execute them instead? Worked very well for ages ... More seriously, there usually are no simple solutions to complex problems. And government is a very complex problem. So many people with so many opinions - and everyone involved afraid to say one wrong word or make one wrong decision. I don't think more fear helps there. I mean - prison for corruption - yes! But prison for incompetence, no. Then you also…

Just take back the salary when the city is net negative from their "experiments"
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