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An open letter in support of RMS being reinstated by the FSF

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Re: An open letter in support of RMS being reinstated by the FSF

#91

Post by [deleted] »

icha wrote: post #90
jellicle wrote: post #39

I do love to see people come out with a public statement that says "We believe that a guy who, in public meetings, representing his organization, picks toe cheese from between his toes and consumes it in front of people, is absolutely the right leader for us! We believe that a guy who showers once or twice per year is the best public face for us. Out of all the billions of people on Earth, he's the one!" Takes guts t…

That's it? Bad hygiene and awkward attempts at romancing women? Truly, a devil incarnate.

[deleted]

Re: An open letter in support of RMS being reinstated by the FSF

#92

Post by caeril »

kemonocode wrote: post #88

What really gets my goat about the RMS situation is that he's not neuronormative, the same people lambasting him are the same people who would deride judgement calls that harsh against someone who's on the spectrum, yet somehow he's an acceptable target. Yes, he's awkward as all hell, and yes, he makes people uncomfortable sometimes and has no social filter, but his contributions are too many to be ignored and his be…

This is nothing more than revenge of the non-nerds.

The younger generation of technologists tend to have much better social skills than those of us "olds" who grew up on BBSes and the purple 8086 book. Writing software is now cool, so the newer cadre of developers are the same mental archetype that stuffed us into lockers for not being normal. They just do different things than play football now.

They intend to punish us for the crime of not having been properly socialized by our peers.

Re: An open letter in support of RMS being reinstated by the FSF

#93

Post by AnimalMuppet »

howeyc wrote: post #77
phasnox wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm trying to fight my own bias here, but.. I really don't know what to think. On one hand I'm totally against cancel culture for things like: - How you voted(e.g. Trump/Biden) - Your political views on any subject On the other hand, Stallman has called for the killing of babies with Down Syndrome. So, could I associate with someone like that? Could I comfortably work with someone that(for example) calls for the kill…

> On the other hand, Stallman has called for the killing of babies with Down Syndrome. He did not say that. You make it sound like he's suggesting babies actually born should be killed. No. He's supporting the current practice of testing the fetus during pregnancy, and aborting if it has down syndrome. Warning to others, this is what happens when you get caught up in cancel-culture wokeness, repeating allegations of…

It's crazier than that. Stallman is being called out by the left/liberals/woke for a pro-choice position.

They don't have actual positions they believe in any more. They just have weapons they can use against people.

Re: An open letter in support of RMS being reinstated by the FSF

#94

Post by sascha_sl »

yongjik wrote: post #82
smoldesu wrote: post #22

As little as I like to do this, I think it's important to bring up the "autism" topic, because I see way too many autistic programmers being thrown under the bus for stuff like this. To start, the three smartest programmers I personally know are autistic, and all of them struggle to make sound judgement calls at the drop of a hat. I've seen them lambasted in IRC channels for saying stupid things or slipping up a func…

https://twitter.com/migueldeicaza/status/1173981287037751297... > I hosted rms many years ago in the 90’s, what was supposed to be hosting your hero for a ~3 day thing became a ~2 month nightmare. I joined a small club “never host rms ever again”. To cope with it, I used to collect the horror stories. > He met a woman on the first evening in town, and extended his stay. One day, I came home from work and she had move…

I'm sure Stallman has issues with social judgement, but that would just lead to awkward situations that resolve when the person notices they're out of line. Stallman will sit on his bad calls. I'd guess this is just what happens when your entire career is built on your stubbornness, and you get applauded for it instead of scolded.

Re: An open letter in support of RMS being reinstated by the FSF

#95

Post by sascha_sl »

smoldesu wrote: post #35
NelsonMinar wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://dev.to/baweaver/the-myth-of-the-autistic-jerk-3kjl

I agree with a lot of the stuff being said here, but it's entirely tangential to what I talked about. Our "cancel culture" is more focused on zooming-in on the minutia than the big-picture. I love my autistic friends, and never once would I describe their behavior as mean-spirited or "jerk-like". I treat them with patient respect, and they reciprocate the sentiment. I personally know that 2 of those 3 friends love RM…

You should read the accounts of the few people that spoke up about working for or with the FSF despite their overreaching NDA. They have nothing good to say about Stallman as a leader. His reputation alone makes him ineffective as a person to rally behind for a lot of people, despite the fact they contribute to FOSS and share more of the ideals of the free software movement than the open source movement.

You can stop Stallman, and you should, lest his ideals and the FSF drop further into irrelevance.

Re: An open letter in support of RMS being reinstated by the FSF

#96

Post by sascha_sl »

phasnox wrote: post #58
smoldesu wrote: post #22

As little as I like to do this, I think it's important to bring up the "autism" topic, because I see way too many autistic programmers being thrown under the bus for stuff like this. To start, the three smartest programmers I personally know are autistic, and all of them struggle to make sound judgement calls at the drop of a hat. I've seen them lambasted in IRC channels for saying stupid things or slipping up a func…

I'm trying to fight my own bias here, but.. I really don't know what to think. On one hand I'm totally against cancel culture for things like: - How you voted(e.g. Trump/Biden) - Your political views on any subject On the other hand, Stallman has called for the killing of babies with Down Syndrome. So, could I associate with someone like that? Could I comfortably work with someone that(for example) calls for the kill…

I'm genuinely interested where you draw the line. Politicians (opinion: read that as mostly Republicans) have advocated for heinous things too. Your last point about feeling safe and comfortable working with such people applies especially to minorities that are severely affected by political policies. How is one "political" and the other is not?

Re: An open letter in support of RMS being reinstated by the FSF

#97

Post by sascha_sl »

smsm42 wrote: post #83
DanBC wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a lot of words to defend someone when you -as you say - don't know what he said nor what he meant. The fact that many people in open source don't care about Stallman's defence of eugenics says a lot.

> This is a lot of words That's your response? "too long, didn't read"? Well, good job, I guess, here's your participation trophy. > The fact that many people in open source don't care about Stallman's defence of eugenics says a lot. No, it actually says nothing at all. That's the whole point, which you may have understood if you bothered to actually read. RMS's views on random subjects is just idle thoughts of a ran…

The point is that maybe you should stop doing a theoretical defense in 1000 words and head over to stallman.org and read up on the words you're defending first.

It's really not that hard.

Re: An open letter in support of RMS being reinstated by the FSF

#98

Post by phasnox »

howeyc wrote: post #77
phasnox wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm trying to fight my own bias here, but.. I really don't know what to think. On one hand I'm totally against cancel culture for things like: - How you voted(e.g. Trump/Biden) - Your political views on any subject On the other hand, Stallman has called for the killing of babies with Down Syndrome. So, could I associate with someone like that? Could I comfortably work with someone that(for example) calls for the kill…

> On the other hand, Stallman has called for the killing of babies with Down Syndrome. He did not say that. You make it sound like he's suggesting babies actually born should be killed. No. He's supporting the current practice of testing the fetus during pregnancy, and aborting if it has down syndrome. Warning to others, this is what happens when you get caught up in cancel-culture wokeness, repeating allegations of…

A "fetus", as you call it, is a person. I'm not calling to cancel him, I just say its hard to support an individual with such despicable thoughts.

On the other hand, many of the signers support abortion in general, so it would be hypocritical of me to support them too.

Re: An open letter in support of RMS being reinstated by the FSF

#99

Post by phasnox »

smsm42 wrote: post #68
phasnox wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm trying to fight my own bias here, but.. I really don't know what to think. On one hand I'm totally against cancel culture for things like: - How you voted(e.g. Trump/Biden) - Your political views on any subject On the other hand, Stallman has called for the killing of babies with Down Syndrome. So, could I associate with someone like that? Could I comfortably work with someone that(for example) calls for the kill…

> Stallman has called for the killing of babies with Down Syndrome. I've been in OSS for decades. I've actually argued with RMS personally on certain subject (he called me evil, which I disagree with, but that's not the point). I've read a lot of his writings and a lot of writings about him. I never heard about this until today. I have no idea what RMS actually said on the subject (you didn't provide a quote, as it u…

> One of the most idiotic and toxic features of cancel culture is reducing the immense complexity of the person's life to one - almost always distorted and misinterpreted - statement and focusing on it as if it were the only point ever.

I actually agree with this.

I never said "cancel him", I said it would be hard to support.

Although I strongly disagree with what he said, I can and should be able to work with people I strongly disagree with, otherwise society would collapse.

I have actually changed my mind :o

Re: An open letter in support of RMS being reinstated by the FSF

#100

Post by qrbLPHiKpiux »

phasnox wrote: post #99
smsm42 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Stallman has called for the killing of babies with Down Syndrome. I've been in OSS for decades. I've actually argued with RMS personally on certain subject (he called me evil, which I disagree with, but that's not the point). I've read a lot of his writings and a lot of writings about him. I never heard about this until today. I have no idea what RMS actually said on the subject (you didn't provide a quote, as it u…

> One of the most idiotic and toxic features of cancel culture is reducing the immense complexity of the person's life to one - almost always distorted and misinterpreted - statement and focusing on it as if it were the only point ever. I actually agree with this. I never said "cancel him", I said it would be hard to support. Although I strongly disagree with what he said, I can and should be able to work with people…

Cancel Culture is a real problem. An unfair one.

I may disagree with what someone says but I will fight with them for their right to say it.

I'm transphobic because I will never under any circumstances be with a transgender man who will never be a woman.

There - Will I be canceled?

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