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Across the Internet, a Game of Whac-a-Mole Is Underway to Root Out Extremism

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Re: Across the Internet, a Game of Whac-a-Mole Is Underway to Root Out Extremism

#91

Post by 2lwxxtj »

TheBobinator wrote: post #88
2lwxxtj wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The reason the MSM puts out news is to sell advertising I'm pretty skeptical about that. The major media outlets have significant influence over the political ideas that circulate through the electorate. In a democracy, that means having a lot of influence over which candidates are viable in elections, which, given how powerful governments are, is worth quite a lot more than ad revenue. Why do you think Jeff Bezos b…

If they had the kind of sway over the public you say they had, then Trump wouldn't have recieved a record 72 million votes in 2020. They spent 4 years lambasting him over every single thing they could and the impact was an election about 90 million people in the US Think was rigged. Stuff like this doesn't help the optics. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGRnhBmHYN0 Nor does Zuckerberg spending $500 million on ballot…

I said they have a lot of influence over which candidates are viable, not total control. Before becoming president, Trump was a very famous and interesting billionaire, which takes away a lot of the media's tools. The famous and interesting part makes it so people want to hear about him and will pull their eyeballs away from any media outlet that doesn't talk about him (which the media companies obviously care about because that takes away their influence), and the billionaire part gives him the ability to buy a credible campaign effort.

Certainly there are considerable numbers of people in this country that totally distrust the major media sources (for very good reason, in my opinion), but they still have considerable viewerships and therefore considerable influence over the thoughts and therefore votes of many.

Again, do you think Bezos was looking for the ad revenue? Or was he looking for political influence?

Re: Across the Internet, a Game of Whac-a-Mole Is Underway to Root Out Extremism

#92

Post by AnimalMuppet »

sneak wrote: post #47

What exactly is the "whac" that is intended for people with views outside of the mainstream?

Whac-A-Mole is an arcade game for children. It has holes in the playing surface, and a mallet or hammer that the player holds. Mechanized moles pop up out of these holes, stay up for a moment, and then go back down. The player attempts to hit the mole with the mallet while the mole is up out of the hole. The difficulty is knowing which mole (or which hole) is going to be the next one you need to hit.

Re: Across the Internet, a Game of Whac-a-Mole Is Underway to Root Out Extremism

#93

Post by sneak »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #92
sneak wrote: post #47

What exactly is the "whac" that is intended for people with views outside of the mainstream?

Whac-A-Mole is an arcade game for children. It has holes in the playing surface, and a mallet or hammer that the player holds. Mechanized moles pop up out of these holes, stay up for a moment, and then go back down. The player attempts to hit the mole with the mallet while the mole is up out of the hole. The difficulty is knowing which mole (or which hole) is going to be the next one you need to hit.

Indeed. What is the action that corresponds to "hit" in your explanation, and who is undertaking it when the extremism "pops up"?

Deleting someone's account doesn't remove them from society, and doesn't change their views, and doesn't prevent them from using other websites, talking to people offline, organizing groups, et c.

In whac-a-mole, you boop it and it goes down/away, you having scored a point.

What do people want to do when online extremism is detected, and why do they think that will be an effective technique for their goals?

Re: Across the Internet, a Game of Whac-a-Mole Is Underway to Root Out Extremism

#94

Post by rscoots »

emodendroket wrote: post #85
rscoots wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you forgo justice in the name of the greater good don't be mad when you get neither. By your own admission, it's a precarious moral tightrope you're walking here.

I don't think that's really what I'm saying. Every Web forum (this one quite notably included) has some kind of ground rules for moderation because if you don't have them they become overrun with pornography, hate speech, or some other kind of content that puts off the majority of users -- in other words they were never radical free speech zones in the first place. If we were talking about sending people to jail for…

What is their excuse for not having a transparent and accountable model for their censorship efforts? You never named the people at these companies you trust to decide what is conspiracy and what is not. I'm sure you can recall many recent examples of the censors getting it wrong however.

Re: Across the Internet, a Game of Whac-a-Mole Is Underway to Root Out Extremism

#95

Post by rscoots »

emodendroket wrote: post #85
rscoots wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you forgo justice in the name of the greater good don't be mad when you get neither. By your own admission, it's a precarious moral tightrope you're walking here.

I don't think that's really what I'm saying. Every Web forum (this one quite notably included) has some kind of ground rules for moderation because if you don't have them they become overrun with pornography, hate speech, or some other kind of content that puts off the majority of users -- in other words they were never radical free speech zones in the first place. If we were talking about sending people to jail for…

> If we were talking about sending people to jail for sharing PizzaGate conspiracies I wouldn't support it, but I don't really see what benefit there is to Facebook or Twitter tolerating such content

Why is the punishment morally revelant to the principle of freedom of conscience? I bet there's a lot of people who would much rather go to jail than lose a Twitter account.

Re: Across the Internet, a Game of Whac-a-Mole Is Underway to Root Out Extremism

#96

Post by AnimalMuppet »

sneak wrote: post #93
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whac-A-Mole is an arcade game for children. It has holes in the playing surface, and a mallet or hammer that the player holds. Mechanized moles pop up out of these holes, stay up for a moment, and then go back down. The player attempts to hit the mole with the mallet while the mole is up out of the hole. The difficulty is knowing which mole (or which hole) is going to be the next one you need to hit.

Indeed. What is the action that corresponds to "hit" in your explanation, and who is undertaking it when the extremism "pops up"? Deleting someone's account doesn't remove them from society, and doesn't change their views, and doesn't prevent them from using other websites, talking to people offline, organizing groups, et c. In whac-a-mole, you boop it and it goes down/away, you having scored a point. What do people…

Ah, sorry, I read your comment as not knowing what the game was.

"Whac", in this context, is to delete or block an account. That doesn't remove the person, just as in the literal game whacking a mole just drives it below the playing surface. The whole point of calling it Whac-A-Mole is that blocking people or suspending accounts doesn't actually change anything or remove the people, it just temporarily drives them back underground. They'll pop up again soon enough.

Re: Across the Internet, a Game of Whac-a-Mole Is Underway to Root Out Extremism

#97

Post by emodendroket »

rscoots wrote: post #95
emodendroket wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's really what I'm saying. Every Web forum (this one quite notably included) has some kind of ground rules for moderation because if you don't have them they become overrun with pornography, hate speech, or some other kind of content that puts off the majority of users -- in other words they were never radical free speech zones in the first place. If we were talking about sending people to jail for…

> If we were talking about sending people to jail for sharing PizzaGate conspiracies I wouldn't support it, but I don't really see what benefit there is to Facebook or Twitter tolerating such content Why is the punishment morally revelant to the principle of freedom of conscience? I bet there's a lot of people who would much rather go to jail than lose a Twitter account.

Because you don’t have an inherent right to use a Web site. I also doubt that that many people prefer jail to losing access to one.

Re: Across the Internet, a Game of Whac-a-Mole Is Underway to Root Out Extremism

#98

Post by rscoots »

emodendroket wrote: post #97
rscoots wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we were talking about sending people to jail for sharing PizzaGate conspiracies I wouldn't support it, but I don't really see what benefit there is to Facebook or Twitter tolerating such content Why is the punishment morally revelant to the principle of freedom of conscience? I bet there's a lot of people who would much rather go to jail than lose a Twitter account.

Because you don’t have an inherent right to use a Web site. I also doubt that that many people prefer jail to losing access to one.

So you disagree with the 1st amendment in principle? Websites either allow freedom of conscience or they do not. The government supplying a "right" doesn't appear to be morally relevant.

Re: Across the Internet, a Game of Whac-a-Mole Is Underway to Root Out Extremism

#99

Post by emodendroket »

rscoots wrote: post #98
emodendroket wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you don’t have an inherent right to use a Web site. I also doubt that that many people prefer jail to losing access to one.

So you disagree with the 1st amendment in principle? Websites either allow freedom of conscience or they do not. The government supplying a "right" doesn't appear to be morally relevant.

I don’t really find it workable to say that the First Amendment means everyone has to let you use their site to say whatever you want. Again, consider this very site, which is strictly moderated.

Re: Across the Internet, a Game of Whac-a-Mole Is Underway to Root Out Extremism

#100

Post by rscoots »

emodendroket wrote: post #99
rscoots wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you disagree with the 1st amendment in principle? Websites either allow freedom of conscience or they do not. The government supplying a "right" doesn't appear to be morally relevant.

I don’t really find it workable to say that the First Amendment means everyone has to let you use their site to say whatever you want. Again, consider this very site, which is strictly moderated.

You'll have to re-read my comment, that's not at all what I said.
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