Has anyone managed to actually get hold of the paper?
Comparison of Postsurgical Scars Between Vegan and Omnivore Patients
91–100 of 112 posts
Re: Comparison of Postsurgical Scars Between Vegan and Omnivore Patients
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not familiar with the data either way, so am reading to learn; why do you say it's bullshit?
Every time I get concerned about one of these things and look it up, it turns out to have been false.
I have the same experience when apparently anti-vegan results/studies appear on HN. Usually the headline is a million miles from what the study could claim to show. It would be nice to actually see this paper.
This was the last time I looked at one of these claims: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23661158 (Article claimed 25% of vegans have low blood iron, and the study involved ..10 vegans.)
Re: Comparison of Postsurgical Scars Between Vegan and Omnivore Patients
#93I am not giving up my vegetarian diet due to one study (n = 21) of a potential negative affect (surgical scars). Meat-based standard American diet has negatives as well. Given that the iron and B12 levels were low for the vegans in the study it would be interesting if they supplemented that and check for an improvement.
edit: corrected study participants number
Re: Comparison of Postsurgical Scars Between Vegan and Omnivore Patients
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe I'm reading into it too much, but the outcome of this study seems to suggest there may be other healing-related issues attached to veganism.
I wouldn't be surprised, though I would be similarly skeptical that other healing-related issues would sway people one way or the other either since (at least the vegans I know) don't adopt the lifestyle for health reasons. Very large effects are unlikely given the number of long-term vegans who seem to maintain sufficient health. Whereas small effects might be considered a worthwhile sacrifice.
Agreed as a vegetarian, this study being called damning is a joke. Veganism has a pretty good track record with respect to health outcomes. Committed vegans that I know would still do it if it lowered their lifespan, because they are doing it for a higher cause (environmental, moral, spiritual, etc.)
Re: Comparison of Postsurgical Scars Between Vegan and Omnivore Patients
#95> This study suggests that a vegan diet may negatively influence the outcome of surgical scars. This is unusually damning to veganism-as-it-is-practiced if not to veganism itself. It would be interesting to see these results across a wide range of diets.
"Veganism" denotes an ethical stance, despite the plant-based health foods movement co-opting the label, or some activists (ab)using health claims to promote a vegan diet. A study about scar tissue is in no way "damning" of it.
Re: Comparison of Postsurgical Scars Between Vegan and Omnivore Patients
#96I would like to see a comparison between the top 10% vegan and omnivores. Most vegans are clueless when it comes to making up deficiencies in typical vegan diets. Glycine is one of the relevant aminos that is very suboptimal or even scarce in vegetarian and vegan diets. It is also going to be one of the important (and likely most common) limiting factors in tissue repair. Proline is also needed for collagen productio…
I was completely vegan for a couple of years. I went that way to avoid gallbladder surgery - it worked, I had no gallbladder pain on a vegan diet. I Supplemented with B12 and Vitamin D as those are typically low to non-existent in the vegan diet. But I started to have problems with my teeth chipping - hadn't had that before. I did some calculations and realized that there was no way I was getting anywhere close to th…
I always thought being calcium deficient is very difficult to do. But I've never had a vegan diet. I've always had a significant amount of dairy (yogurt/kefir, cheese) in my diet though, which contains enough calcium. (Pesco-vegetarian for a decade+ was the furtherst I got.)
Sardines are great for DMAE---good brain food as well as other benefits (like plenty of calcium); good choice.
Boron deficiency is far more common than calcium deficiency, and it's very important for bone strength, or rather flexibility and cohesion. I highly recommend some Boron supplementation, since it's so easy to be deficient. Just as with all trace minerals, don't over do it (btwn 2mg and 5mg is a good dose for an avg weight adult). 3mg/day is a very common adult dose---that's what contained in 4.5 apples/day; apples are a really good source of boron.
Vit D supplementation is very important these days especially. But mega supplements (of 10k IU or higher) can cause calcium loss. It's better to take smaller doses spread more evenly/frequently than to take a huge doses every two weeks to monthly. 2000 IU per day with a meal should be fine for most avg weight adults; I see no reason to take more. 5000 IU twice a week, spread about evenly, and with a big meal is fine too. I wouldn't get any more coarse than that. Doses much larger than 5000 IU might cause calcium loss, ie. erosion.
Re: Comparison of Postsurgical Scars Between Vegan and Omnivore Patients
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Most vegans are clueless when it comes to making up deficiencies in typical vegan diets The same goes for non-vegans.
However non-vegans don't normally need to make up for the deficiencies in typical vegan diets.
yes, and omnivore diets are much much more forgiving as far as avoiding serious deficiencies.
Re: Comparison of Postsurgical Scars Between Vegan and Omnivore Patients
#98Take an iron and B12 supplement. Done.
Re: Comparison of Postsurgical Scars Between Vegan and Omnivore Patients
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
Or people could work on their ability to identify normal human modes of speech.
Given we’ve had the internet for over a generation with this issue being known that whole time, I don’t think that’s actually something we can do. Not in general, not from plain text.
I think only morons, autistics, etc have a habitually hard time identifying sarcasm. These are not the people we should optimize the web experience for.
Re: Comparison of Postsurgical Scars Between Vegan and Omnivore Patients
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
_If_ you can get enough exercise, you can be healthy on pretty much any omnivore diet because it's so hard to not get enough nutrition, and extra calories don't matter if you burn them off. I personally lost lots of weight when I was cycling regularly to work and school (10km and 50km round trip respectively), as well as caving and climbing on weekends. Almost everything I ate was fast food, because I had hardly any…
I remember hearing the question asked someplace about whether any professional athletes are vegans, especially for the intense sports that require a lot of muscle rebuilding and maybe even contact sport healing and what not. That might illuminate things a bit.