Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Windows Refund Day (1999)

marc.merlins.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 138 posts

Re: Windows Refund Day (1999)

#91

Post by nly »

ogre_codes wrote: post #55
bostonsre wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, would have to say there's a lot more options now. It kind of seems like an elephant in the room, so want to call it out.... Is windows better or worse than macs/osx with Linux hostility? To me, it seems like Microsoft is less bad than Apple in this regard.

> Is windows better or worse than macs/osx with Linux hostility? To me, it seems like Microsoft is less bad than Apple in this regard. I'm not sure what you mean. Personally I like the Mac because it lets me run Unix stuff in a no BS way from the command line. It also runs Docker fine (haven't tried it on the M1). It doesn't have something like WSL, but it doesn't really need it because you can compile most things fo…

The docker experience on Linux is vastly superior to that on Windows or macOS though

Re: Windows Refund Day (1999)

#92

Post by npteljes »

noisy_boy wrote: post #45

Windows is insurance. I love Linux and exclusively (at home) use it daily. I love the idea of open source and the unmatched flexibility that comes with it - I can customize my desktop to match my workflow to the nth degree. However, sometimes (very rarely now a days), stuff breaks and when I absolutely cannot afford to spend 30 mins troubleshooting, I reboot into Windows and basically get the job done. I do get back…

A second Linux installation would do the same for you. The insurance is less Windows, and more having redundancy. Especially true if the situation is time critical - a default Linux installation won't stall you with a mandatory update.

Re: Windows Refund Day (1999)

#93

Post by greatgib »

Crazy to realize the long path we did, from being unable to buy any laptop at all without a Windows license to being able to buy computers directly shipped with Linux, and even open hardware.

I guess that for younger people, it might be hard to remember the "good old time" when we were fighting for reimbursement of the license.

One time, I did the process to try to get reimbursed for one laptop in France.

At that time, there was a lot of uncertainty and no clearly defined process, but it was clear that the French law was on our side.

In the doubt, I did it all: registered letters to HP and to the retailer. I think that in theory it was supposed to be HP that should reimbursed me, but I think that they never replied to me.

On the other side, I received a reimbursement from the retailer in a kind of "nice unofficial way":

>

(So it was not really needed that I burned/shred my Windows license or anything else)

Re: Windows Refund Day (1999)

#94

Post by srazzaque »

npteljes wrote: post #92
noisy_boy wrote: post #45

Windows is insurance. I love Linux and exclusively (at home) use it daily. I love the idea of open source and the unmatched flexibility that comes with it - I can customize my desktop to match my workflow to the nth degree. However, sometimes (very rarely now a days), stuff breaks and when I absolutely cannot afford to spend 30 mins troubleshooting, I reboot into Windows and basically get the job done. I do get back…

A second Linux installation would do the same for you. The insurance is less Windows, and more having redundancy. Especially true if the situation is time critical - a default Linux installation won't stall you with a mandatory update.

For some things yes, but not for all things. I can think of 2:

For a remote interview that I had a while back over Cisco WebEx, when things didn't work on my Fedora machine immediately, I'm glad I had my wife's XPS13 with Windows as stand by. Zero time wasted, worked immediately. If that didnt work, it would have been a phone call. I really wouldn't have wanted to muck around with some other distro at that point in time, even if I disagreed with the values of the software developers in question.

For those situations where someone emails me an Excel or Word file that they would like my edits in, and I'm simply not in the position to extoll the virtues of open formats or coach them in Markdown or LaTeX, I have a Windows VM and office.

Re: Windows Refund Day (1999)

#95

Post by gambiting »

greatgib wrote: post #93

Crazy to realize the long path we did, from being unable to buy any laptop at all without a Windows license to being able to buy computers directly shipped with Linux, and even open hardware. I guess that for younger people, it might be hard to remember the "good old time" when we were fighting for reimbursement of the license. One time, I did the process to try to get reimbursed for one laptop in France. At that tim…

Well, at least now in the EU it's completely 1000% legal for you to take that licence and sell it on if you wish. There have been several court cases specifically about re-selling OEM software licences and all of them have been lost by Microsoft. As a customer in the EU you have a very explicit right ot sell licences for any and all software you own, even if it was bundled with a pre-built machine.

Re: Windows Refund Day (1999)

#96

Post by pydry »

harikb wrote: post #15
sellyme wrote: post #6

> The windows EULA (End User License Agreement) clearly states that the agreement can be refused by the end user, and that windows can be returned to the manufacturer. In real life, however, manufacturers typically say that they can't refund the windows license and tell the user to contact microsoft directly. I can't say I really blame manufacturers for doing that [...] I can. If companies want to profit by being a m…

> maybe they should stop doing business deals with a company that's actively hostile to them Remember, at one point they were considered a monopoly on PC operating systems. It is not like PC vendors had an option. Not signing on to the cartel was not an option.

It's almost as if the OP is deliberately missing this point.

Re: Windows Refund Day (1999)

#97

Post by gambiting »

tinus_hn wrote: post #81
p2t2p wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They addressed it in Russia btw. Now it is the law that whoever accepts the payment carries the responsibility. So shit like > manufacturers typically say that they can't refund the windows license and tell the user to contact microsoft directly won't fly anymore.

Same in Europe, you have to make sure the product conforms to the description so if it is broken you have to react or take it back. I don’t think this has ever been tested with respect to licenses though.

Retailers in EU(and EEA and UK) have to take the product back if you don't agree with the licence, the problem is that this is not what customers usually want. People want to buy a laptop, disagree with the licence, and get money back just for the licence. Instead retailers will(or should) offer you a refund for the entire device, which is not what most people want.

Re: Windows Refund Day (1999)

#98

Post by tinus_hn »

gambiting wrote: post #97
tinus_hn wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same in Europe, you have to make sure the product conforms to the description so if it is broken you have to react or take it back. I don’t think this has ever been tested with respect to licenses though.

Retailers in EU(and EEA and UK) have to take the product back if you don't agree with the licence, the problem is that this is not what customers usually want. People want to buy a laptop, disagree with the licence, and get money back just for the licence. Instead retailers will(or should) offer you a refund for the entire device, which is not what most people want.

I’d like to buy a phone and then get a refund for the screen, microphone, camera, battery, speakers, case, antennas and the modem. And the software too please.

Of course this only worked because Microsoft put this in the license and they have taken it out long ago. You can’t return Windows for a refund anymore.

Re: Windows Refund Day (1999)

#99

Post by chungy »

scq wrote: post #19
shaunxcode wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow nytimes.com looks drastically better than their current design.

Does it? Each line of text spans my whole monitor, which doesn't make for a very comfortable reading experience.

You don't have to have your browser spanning the entire monitor.

Re: Windows Refund Day (1999)

#100

Post by Macha »

mleonhard wrote: post #77

I read this and remembered how much I used to^W^W hate Microsoft. Microsoft intentionally did not fix the virus vectors in their software. They could have easily stopped 99% of viruses with these steps: 1. Make Windows ignore autorun.ini on writable media. -- When a user double-clicks on a drive that has a hidden autorun.ini file, Windows executes the binary referenced in the file. This is how most Windows viruses sp…

> 1. Make Windows ignore autorun.ini on writable media

Wasn't this fixed in XP SP1? You got a OS prompt asking which action you wanted to take when you inserted removable media.

Post reply on HN