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Amazon's anti-union site for its Alabama warehouse

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Re: Amazon's anti-union site for its Alabama warehouse

#91

I got a weird vibe of WW II-era propaganda from it, the cute music bopping dog... like a modern version of something out of a newsreel piece, or a parody of it from a Fallout videogame. It's so blatant & over the top that I'd almost believe the union organizers set it up to make Amazon look bad. And it's telling that they focus pretty exclusively on the $500 in dues: They pay their employees little enough that they k…

They pay their employees so much that they only make $1k/employee in profit. The dues on top of whatever useless shit the union negotiates for could put amazon back into the read without any benefit for anyone except union officials.

Pleade strike the first sentence of this comment, thanks.

Re: Amazon's anti-union site for its Alabama warehouse

#92
post #50

I wonder how many people commenting have actually been part of a union. I have. My take is that if it's voluntary: great. If the union has negotiated that a company cannot hire you without being a part of the union: not great. Perhaps that should even be illegal. Forcing people making minimum wage to pay union dues is as far from helping people at the bottom as you can get. Unions are typically about benefitting peop…

What you're talking about making illegal, requiring all employees to join the union or pay dues, that's already illegal in much of the country: that's what "right-to-work" laws do. Alabama is one of the states with a right-to-work law.

So from 1977 until 2018, you could be required to pay union dues, even if you weren't a member of the union even in "right to work" states, 22 of them.

So it isn't like you've been free and clear to not have a union interfere with you being hired.

It took the supreme court (which over threw its own ruling) to remove this.

Additionally, even in places where you have union and non-union employees, the unions can make things difficult, and costly for non-union employees. My personal experience was that I removed from a wall mount a wi-fi router, rebooted it, and placed it back on the wall.

This resulted in me reprimanded, my department having to pay a 4 hour call out fee, to the union electrician.

So, my choices are to call out a union electrician to service the mounted piece of equipment. Or "accidentally" bump the IO switch on the surge protector.

It was this, and countless other stupid shit, that made me really dislike working in a place with a union.

Re: Amazon's anti-union site for its Alabama warehouse

#93
post #31

Amazon recently opened up in Sweden. According to this (Danish) https://fagbladet3f.dk/artikel/svenske-amazon-arbejdere-faar... the workers are in an union.

I believe like 70% of all workers in Sweden are in an union. It's basically the same in Finland (I'm Finnish and in an union).

Re: Amazon's anti-union site for its Alabama warehouse

#94

> IF YOU’RE PAYING DUES… it will be RESTRICTIVE meaning it won’t be easy to be as helpful and social with each other. So be a DOER, stay friendly and get things done versus paying dues What is this line even supposed to mean? Probably the most incomprehensible union busting talking point I've ever heard.

Probably the part where some employees will pay dues and some won’t, introducing a rift between employees where formerly there was none.

Re: Amazon's anti-union site for its Alabama warehouse

#95

> IF YOU’RE PAYING DUES… it will be RESTRICTIVE meaning it won’t be easy to be as helpful and social with each other. So be a DOER, stay friendly and get things done versus paying dues What is this line even supposed to mean? Probably the most incomprehensible union busting talking point I've ever heard.

My wife worked in the event planning industry - the few unionized venues she had to deal with were a huge pain loaded with restrictions. As a client you couldn't even move a table by yourself on the spot - a union employee had to do it as part of an assigned task. Perhaps it's warning of similar red tape that gets in the way of doing work directly.

[deleted]

Re: Amazon's anti-union site for its Alabama warehouse

#96
post #15

This is another reminder that we have some of the negative aspects of a cyberpunk future without the cool empowering hacking parts. I wonder about the sort of person who would design such a website. Surely you'd have to be dead inside to create such an abomination, even if it's just a job? I am not trying to be hyperbolic here.

> Surely you'd have to be dead inside to create such an abomination, even if it's just a job? I am not trying to be hyperbolic here. Many of us don’t like unions. We consider them to be parasitic organizations that pervert the employer-employee-customer relationship without adding value. In fact, by twisting a business so that it is run for the benefit of the employees instead of for the mutual benefit of employees,…

Perhaps there are plausible anti-union arguments out there, but this Amazon website isn't making them. Instead we get text like this:

> IF YOU’RE PAYING DUES… it will be RESTRICTIVE meaning it won’t be easy to be as helpful and social with each other. So be a DOER, stay friendly and get things done versus paying dues.

It's impossible for me to imagine that anyone involved in drafting that text actually believed it was a meaningful argument.

Re: Amazon's anti-union site for its Alabama warehouse

#97

That very first * is the first major point for unions. Many unions protect part time workers, or protect workers from being excluded from a fair share of benefits based on their inputs. The reason for this is that there’s no incentive to push hours down until no one gets benefits. Which is not uncommon, unfortunately. Many companies tout incredible benefits with a significant portion of their workforce having no enti…

> Many unions protect part time workers, or protect workers from being excluded from a fair share of benefits based on their inputs. I can understand why this would be highly preferable for part time workers. Can you understand how a company might be able to afford to provide a $30,000/yr benefits package to workers who work 40 hours a week, but not be able to afford to provide a $30,000/yr benefits package to worker…

These are all valid points that are worth investigating.

As far as negotiating as an individual goes, you’re right - a union removes that option. It does however empower those who can’t or won’t or otherwise struggle to negotiate for themselves, for a multitude of valid reasons. To me that’s worth something. I’ve been fortunate enough to more or less glide through my career and rarely need to negotiate anything in order to live comfortably. This is exceedingly rare though. I wouldn’t want to say no to a union because I’ve never needed or wanted one for myself. If people collectively desire it, I think it’s a net positive.

As far as getting paid more and managing your own benefits and vacation, I hear that. I’ve felt the same as times. However, the older I get the more I think things like a pension and extended health sound pretty nice. It’s like having an easy-bake oven that pumps out legitimate desserts. We’re not all endowed with the chops to make that happen, so having this stuff on autopilot is a significant windfall eventually.

As far as flattening wages goes, I’m not so sure. Everywhere my partner has worked with a union, her wages have steadily increased due to the union bargaining for her. Sometimes the increases are substantial. The wages across the current organization certainly aren’t flat either.

You’re right that not everyone wants these things, too. I’m not sure you can get around that particular problem.

Ultimately I’d just say unions aren’t inherently bad and if you don’t like them, work somewhere that doesn’t have one. Most places don’t, so it’s not a limiting factor that should impose personal risk.

Re: Amazon's anti-union site for its Alabama warehouse

#98

What I don't understand is why anybody would believe opinion pieces put out by their employer regarding if a union is right for you or not. Your interests are clearly not aligned. Is there some segment of workers who can't appreciate that fact? Whenever anybody gives you an opinion on anything, it will be tainted with their interests. Is pondering a topic from another party's perspective an exceptional critical think…

Don't take it completely at face value. This wasn't just to to try to convince people that a union was a bad choice, this was a scare tactic to indicate how angry Amazon will be if they go ahead & unionize, and the consequences of that anger. See the part about not being so "helpful". Unionization efforts also always take place against the backdrop of former employers simply shutting down the business location and mo…

Well businesses closing and moving, has happened a considerable amount, and often to devastating effects to a community, so it seems like something that would be of real concern.

Realistically, how much would it hurt to move amazon warehouses near the border of any neighboring state?

The days of the factories, and none movable infrastructure a long gone, so it is a strong factor to consider.

Re: Amazon's anti-union site for its Alabama warehouse

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Surely you'd have to be dead inside to create such an abomination, even if it's just a job? I am not trying to be hyperbolic here. Many of us don’t like unions. We consider them to be parasitic organizations that pervert the employer-employee-customer relationship without adding value. In fact, by twisting a business so that it is run for the benefit of the employees instead of for the mutual benefit of employees,…

> you’re so unfamiliar with the actual case against unions How can the average American worker be so unfamiliar with the case against unions? We are inundated with anti-union propaganda practically from birth. Barely any of us are unionized, corporations have gone to the ends of the earth to disempower or dismantle unions for the past 40-50 years, and you hardly ever hear any pro-union narrative outside of union orga…

> How can the average American worker be so unfamiliar with the case against unions? We are inundated with anti-union propaganda practically from birth.

I disagree on the pervasiveness of anti-union propaganda. Perhaps this is your experience, it has not been mine.

> Barely any of us are unionized, corporations have gone to the ends of the earth to disempower or dismantle unions for the past 40-50 years, and you hardly ever hear any pro-union narrative outside of union organizers and the left.

Barely any of us are amateur radio operators and you never hear about amateur radio from anyone except preppers and geeks, but it isn’t because of inundation of anti-ham-radio propaganda from birth, merely that most people aren’t aware that ham radio could fulfill any of their needs.

> I have heard the arguments against unions so many times I can recite them by heart. I've had posters up in my workplace, I've had to watch anti-union videos before even applying for jobs and I've had comments like yours pushed all over anything that even mentions unions.

Thats your experience. But I bet you didn’t wonder that each and every person who propagandized you were dead inside. Rather you eventually became aware that some of them had their own beliefs based on their own perspectives that led them to their anti-union work.

> The idea that someone is pro-union because they've never heard the arguments against unions beggars belief.

As does the idea that someone could only make anti-union website if they were dead inside, but we like to assume good faith when people make statements and keep our cynicism to ourselves when possible.

Re: Amazon's anti-union site for its Alabama warehouse

#100
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must be angry a lot - and often, too.

This isn't true. Why would you think so?

Probably they assume that you live somewhere where the government (or someone else) is regularly claiming to speak for you.
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