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84% of Waterloo Software Engineering undergrads move to the US upon graduation

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Re: 84% of Waterloo Software Engineering undergrads move to the US upon graduation

#91
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American firms tend to have much higher quality corporate management than their Canadian counterparts.[1] To be profitable at FAAMG salaries requires leveraging your engineers to achieve very high levels of productivity and execution. That's generally not possible without management that consistently adheres to best practices. [1] https://pubs.aeaweb.org/doi/pdfplus/10.1257/jep.24.1.203

I think a bigger issue is the lack of venture capital. It's significantly harder to to raise the multi-million seed rounds needed to sustain Google/Amazon salary in Waterloo/Toronto

Based on my 15 years of experience (similar for my partner), there are a lot of cash flow positive companies in the US who pay a lot. They don't need venture capital at all. So there must be some other reason (profitability? SV culture of valuing engineers?)

When I was at Google, I learned from an internal pay comparison spreadsheet that a person in the same job at the same level is paid much worse in Waterloo (and in the UK as well) compared to SV / NYC, and the reason cited was "cost of labor" or some such fancy term which essentially meant "we want to pay as little as possible, so a little bit more than our competitors". So ultimately, it boils down to "prevailing wages" in Canada (and the UK).

The first company to offer SV level wages in Canada / UK will see a deluge of high quality applicants who want to stay in those locations for whatever reasons. I wonder why no one has tried that yet.

Re: 84% of Waterloo Software Engineering undergrads move to the US upon graduation

#92
post #26
post #10

Why are SWEs paid so much less in Canada vs US?

Because there are very few software/IT companies in Canada (or Europe or almost anywhere else except China) with revenues like US software/IT giants. So software engineers tend to work in supporting roles / costs center departments in other industries (finance, manufacturing, logistics) or do non-scalable work such as contracting or small/medium-enterprise front-end/back-end dev.

> Because there are very few software/IT companies in Canada (or Europe or almost anywhere else except China) with revenues like US software/IT giants.

I replied elsewhere in the thread but this is simply not true based on what I have seen first hand at companies like Google. They have a presence in Canada / UK, but pay at a much lower rate than SV for the same job/level/performance. So profitability or a lack of revenue seems just an excuse.

Re: 84% of Waterloo Software Engineering undergrads move to the US upon graduation

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, is the pay lower for all professions in Canada when compared to US, or just SWE?

I recall during either during the 90's or mid 2000's that Canada was loosing a lot of medical school graduates to the United States for much the same reasons as well. There was some articles about it reversing in the last decade though. On a personal note: I did QA, test automation, and current am technically Sales Engineering (though I'm finding I dislike it quite a lot). My last raise brought my salary to $52,000 C…

> As is I haven't the foggiest idea if I am qualified, how to find out, or what companies would even consider someone like me.

If you are considering QA or test automation, almost all software companies have openings in those fields. FAANGs perennially have shortage of these positions and they can take care of all the visa issues for you. Startups are also an option if you know what you are getting into.

A variation of sales engineering that you might like is solutions architect role. This role would be more predominant in larger companies, where you might interface with sales engineers but have more technical responsibilities in everyday work. Any large cloud service provider would list dozens of open solutions architect roles.

Re: 84% of Waterloo Software Engineering undergrads move to the US upon graduation

#94

Could it be that a lot of these young, bright folks would just rather live in the US, and getting a valuable degree enabled them to do what they've wanted to do for some time?

Anecdotal, but that's not how any of the half a dozen waterloo grads I know describe it.

Well, you know more than me. I've never even been to Canada.

Re: 84% of Waterloo Software Engineering undergrads move to the US upon graduation

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. There's a US media narrative that taxes and health care are worse in Canada than the US but: 1) You will likely pay more in taxes in California than Canada. 2) It's easier to itemize self-employment tax expenses in Canada, so you can easily pay half the taxes of the US. (I paid 12% of total income the last year I worked in Toronto.) 3) Everybody I know in Canada is happy with health care, and infinitely happier t…

That makes 84% of Waterloo grads idiots for leaving Canada. They will all wise up and come back

Spare me the endless pedantic HN Econ 101 nonsense.

Their taxes are lower in Canada than California and there's less health-care drama, but salaries are much lower.

Your comment is symptomatic of the decline of public discourse. There's 2 people with first-hand knowledge of Canadian culture in this thread, so why not ask questions in good faith?

FYI: the greatest failure in America is the lack of public policy and planning. You can apply whatever pandemic criticism you want equally to education, the military, etc.

If you watch interviews with any US self-made billionaire, their gravest concern is the lack of public policy - it's that glaring when you know where to look.

Re: 84% of Waterloo Software Engineering undergrads move to the US upon graduation

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotal, but that's not how any of the half a dozen waterloo grads I know describe it.

Well, you know more than me. I've never even been to Canada.

I have, but I know all these grads because I worked with them in Seattle :D
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