Isn't this overreach? Financial organisation making conditions on which political party you can support.
It's not about which political party they support. Literally no one is being banned from stripe just for voting republican.
Stripe bans Trump campaign
91–100 of 1001 posts
Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign
#92The people cheering this on will not be protected when the mob comes for you. We live in a digital age. If having the wrong opinion means you can get your bank accounts and all Internet presence removed from you, it's not any different than living under a fascist government.
I don’t know if you were paying attention last week, but the mob literally came for the members of Congress. There are wrong opinions, and then there is “six million Jews were not enough” and “hang the Vice President”, and a violent mob attacking the Capitol. No one is under any obligation to tolerate such actions in a civil society. If I advocate for your murder, am I just expressing an opinion that should be conseq…
[flagged]
Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign
#93The people cheering this on will not be protected when the mob comes for you. We live in a digital age. If having the wrong opinion means you can get your bank accounts and all Internet presence removed from you, it's not any different than living under a fascist government.
Other people have pointed out that Trump and much of the GOP just launched a coup, so I'll leave that aside.
Of course it's different from living under a fascist government. A totalitarian government would send you to a prison camp or kill you for saying the wrong thing. The Stasi would systematically and invisibly ruin all your relationships and your career. People who are banned from Twitter can go to another website or start their own. If they're banned from Stripe, they can use Visa or pay in cash. If they are banned from social media, they can hop on any of the numerous right-wing TV stations or write for any of the numerous right-wing newspapers.
Even if this were the government, it would be an exaggeration to say that these actions are totalitarian. There are countries today where you could get locked up for having the wrong opinion that are miles from being fascist. Germany springs to mind, since many people have been arrested for Holocaust denial. Many European countries tick along just fine despite the fact that they would instantly throw the likes of the Westboro Baptist Church in prison.
The American dedication to freedom of speech is admirable. However, it is also an aberration. Since the American approach to freedom of speech is not the norm, we should treat it as rare and precious but also recognize that things would be mostly fine with some restrictions. Cool it with the hyperbole.
Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
The US is not at war, these are two groups within a single country.
I think you are missing the point of my question. I’m pointing out that not all opinions should be protected equally. Opinions of hate or violence are bad for society. I don’t understand why the suppression of those things is considered totalitarian? Especially when it comes from private enterprise.
Because if you block 'bad' opinions, you'll need to arbiter them to distinguish bad ones from good. This process is corruptible and eventually you'll find that opposing a current government is 'bad' (this happened in my country in a short span of 15 years). So it turns out that allowing all speech, even 'bad' is less harmful for society in the long run than trying to suppress some speech.
Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign
#95There is a difference between bank accounts, Visa/MasterCard access and Internet service, on one hand, and App Stores, Twitter accounts and payment providers, on the other hand.
The First Amendment promises both free speech and free assembly. Core to the latter is the freedom not to assemble. This freedom is regulated. You can’t refuse to do business with protected classes. But political affiliation is not a protected class.
There are utilities, which have limited freedom not to assemble. Then there are private persons and private businesses. Stripe and Twitter are clearly the latter. AWS and Visa feel like the former, though they are legally the latter.
The cost of switching private activity to a utility model is a loss of innovation and an increase in political involvement. We are re-evaluating, as a society, the balance between the freedoms of speech and assembly. Let’s not forget these are freedoms in balance, not a spectrum of tyranny and anarchy.
Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign
#96The people cheering this on will not be protected when the mob comes for you. We live in a digital age. If having the wrong opinion means you can get your bank accounts and all Internet presence removed from you, it's not any different than living under a fascist government.
There's a big difference in wrong opinion and inciting violence. This isn't the government doing this. This is private companies taking action against the spread hate and lies. These are companies I want to do business with.
Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign
#97The people cheering this on will not be protected when the mob comes for you. We live in a digital age. If having the wrong opinion means you can get your bank accounts and all Internet presence removed from you, it's not any different than living under a fascist government.
Should I be worried? Probably not since I am not advocating for the violent overthrow of democracy in America.
Absolutely, you should be worried. No court has ruled that Trump has done anything illegal. It is not even a proven fact that he is advocating for the violent overthrow of democracy in America. Properly run law courts make these decisions. It is not for you or me to decide. That is the definition of mob rule.
Based on pressure from the public, a few powerful Tech Moguls have acted as judges within their private jurisdictions, which just so happen to encompass some of the most important infrastructure in the modern world.
What if these Tech Moguls get it wrong, and start denying your tribe the services of the modern world?
Anyone who thinks this issue is simple is confused. These are new problems of the modern world. Solving them probably requires new laws.
Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
So you mean that 75M people who voted for trump are nazi lovers? I'm not American, but, wow. Be sure to always agree with your new ruling party, and vote as they say, or you might find yourself to be a nazi lover, too.
No one has been banned for voting for Trump. Those 75m people are fine, apart from the ones who stormed the capitol.
Did Trump campaign storm the Capitol? You have evidence?
Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wonder if during world war 2 people opposed fighting nazis like this...
Well, IBM didn't ban Germany...
Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign
#100Not to be reductionist but I don’t see this as a totalitarian issue. This is a free market decision. $Company decides to sever ties with another organization. That choice can be good, bad, reactive, overreactive, misguided, etc but it’s still a market participant choice. Market remains open for other market participants to make other choices.
There is no free financial market.