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Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

nytimes.com

91–100 of 179 posts

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#91

What exactly do people expect to happen by identifying the capitol rioters? Okay they get arrested, maybe charged with a crime. Others will get doxxed and most will lose their jobs. They'll become social outcasts. Do you really want a bunch of very angry people to effectively be pushed into a corner, demonized by society and so on? This will end up having very big unintended consequences.

You could say that about every criminal though.

In this situation we're talking about a bunch of conspiracy nut jobs compared to a cold-blooded criminal that premediates their violent crimes.

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#93

What exactly do people expect to happen by identifying the capitol rioters? Okay they get arrested, maybe charged with a crime. Others will get doxxed and most will lose their jobs. They'll become social outcasts. Do you really want a bunch of very angry people to effectively be pushed into a corner, demonized by society and so on? This will end up having very big unintended consequences.

They can be mad. Without employment or resources to express themselves it means nothing.

Yeah there are crazies that will be fine with that, but what they can do without the support of “normalish” people is limited.

The alternative is to allow the escalation to continue.

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#94
post #4

I realize that this is one of those situations where I'm supposed to be supportive of the use of facial recognition, but I'm still uncomfortable. Facial recognition seems like an all or nothing deal to me, and even after the capitol has been raided... I still opt for 'nothing'.

Agree. This is a huge slippery slope.

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. They tried to destroy the Capitol and capture elected officials. If you don't arrest them now then there will just be even more violent MAGA riots in the immediate future.

How long are we going to lock them up? How many people are we going to lock up? My understanding was that there was 100k+ people in attendance at this rally and thousands of people were in the capitol building itself.

You’re not going to deter the die hards. You absolutely will deter the “normies” with mortgages and retirement accounts to lose (I’d say their families acceptance, but they don’t seem to care much about that).

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#96

I don't understand the beard trend. (Pictured in the article) It seems like a huge portion of anti-government and/or ardent President Trump supporters have those big untrimmed beards. Is it regional based on where many such supporters live? I certainly don't see any ideological link to untrimmed beards, so it must be some other co-occuring factor.

Conservative men pride themselves in being distinctly men so they exaggerate the masculine traits like a beard.

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could say that about every criminal though.

In this situation we're talking about a bunch of conspiracy nut jobs compared to a cold-blooded criminal that premediates their violent crimes.

"But they're not like the other criminals!" Maybe let the courts decide that.

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#98
post #59

Seems like there's a big difference between passive dragnet usage of facial recognition on crowds in non-criminal situations, vs using this tool combined with soliciting tips from the public to identify people from video of them performing crimes.

The most common complaint is that AI identifies unrelated people who look similar as being the perpetrator that would never have been found without AI. Pretty likely this can happen here as well.

You don't think that happens with tip lines?

If anything, far FEWER mistakes will be made. Not more.

It's this weird thing where people hear about this one scary story of a guy misidentified and think "OMG facial recognition is terrible!" but they don't realize that happens to XYZ number people a day via human error.

But we're all MORE comfortable with it if it's good old fashioned...human error?

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#99

What exactly do people expect to happen by identifying the capitol rioters? Okay they get arrested, maybe charged with a crime. Others will get doxxed and most will lose their jobs. They'll become social outcasts. Do you really want a bunch of very angry people to effectively be pushed into a corner, demonized by society and so on? This will end up having very big unintended consequences.

I've marched in support of BLM. Protest is necessary, and for it to be effective it generally has to make folks uncomfortable on some level and that may include a level of civil disobedience. It's not supposed to be all fun and sunshine, particularly if you are the adversary of those protesting.

I'm diametrically opposed to Trump and his supporters on a lot of issues, but I recognize that a functional society needs to accept their right to protest as well. They should be able to have their marches just like we have ours.

However, the stated goals and actions of many of those in last week's march and rioting are explicitly violent and seditious. Many of the protestors were heavily armed. They killed a policeman.

    Do you really want a bunch of very angry people to
    effectively be pushed into a corner, demonized by
    society and so on?
I understand what you're saying: by pushing individuals into a corner, we may make them more desperate and feed into the overall "persecution" complex that motivates their movement as a whole. I think that's true.

On the other side of things, if we do nothing we legitimize their extremist views? Those extremist views become the new normal, or at least most the goalposts for the range of views considered normal.

Admittedly, it's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't situation."

But this isn't about denying their views or their right to protest. It's about targeting specific criminal actions that we don't want my side, their side, or any side to do.

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#100
post #54
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, why do you feel like you're supposed to be supportive of the use of facial recognition in this case?

Identifying terrorists is a positive outcome.

Terrorism or child abuse are always the reason to legitimize surveillance software. But once installed the purpose of use changes.
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