Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Twitch disables Trump’s account indefinitely

theverge.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 108 posts

Re: Twitch disables Trump’s account indefinitely

#91

Post by awnird »

newacct583 wrote: post #90
incrudible wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't a sacking. There was trespassing and a couple of smashed windows. These are the worst images that CNN could find: https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/06/politics/gallery/electora... There are two ways forward: We make a really big deal out of this and therefore implicitly demand that protests should be suppressed with massive force. Alternatively, we can admit that this is about as peaceful an outcome as we cou…

How exactly do you define sacking? They pushed past armed guards, broke barriers, entered the chambers of an active joint session of congress forcing the entirety of the USA legislative branch and its Vice President at the very moment they were certifying a presidential election into a secure bunker. ... and you think that's "about as peaceful an outcome as we could possibly have hoped for"? I genuinely don't underst…

The insurrectionists were murderers though.

https://twitter.com/kristin__wilson/status/13473283250191646...

Re: Twitch disables Trump’s account indefinitely

#92

Post by incrudible »

newacct583 wrote: post #90
incrudible wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't a sacking. There was trespassing and a couple of smashed windows. These are the worst images that CNN could find: https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/06/politics/gallery/electora... There are two ways forward: We make a really big deal out of this and therefore implicitly demand that protests should be suppressed with massive force. Alternatively, we can admit that this is about as peaceful an outcome as we cou…

How exactly do you define sacking? They pushed past armed guards, broke barriers, entered the chambers of an active joint session of congress forcing the entirety of the USA legislative branch and its Vice President at the very moment they were certifying a presidential election into a secure bunker. ... and you think that's "about as peaceful an outcome as we could possibly have hoped for"? I genuinely don't underst…

> How exactly do you define sacking?

I'll go with this one, from Cambridge Dictionary:

"an attack on a building or town in which a lot of destruction is caused and many valuable things are stolen"

> ... and you think that's "about as peaceful an outcome as we could possibly have hoped for"?

Yes, as peaceful as we could have hoped for, considering that many of these people believe a satanic cult has undermined the US government and defrauded their rightful president out of a second term.

> I genuinely don't understand. This is the kind of operation of government that is supposed to never be disruptible. If past mobs knew it was this easy then we could have had a zillion coups by now.

You don't automatically achieve a coup by entering some building and interrupting some bureaucratic process, no matter how symbolic it may be. Biden got elected.

> This is still unimaginably bad.

You must lack imagination.

Re: Twitch disables Trump’s account indefinitely

#93

Post by newacct583 »

incrudible wrote: post #92
newacct583 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How exactly do you define sacking? They pushed past armed guards, broke barriers, entered the chambers of an active joint session of congress forcing the entirety of the USA legislative branch and its Vice President at the very moment they were certifying a presidential election into a secure bunker. ... and you think that's "about as peaceful an outcome as we could possibly have hoped for"? I genuinely don't underst…

> How exactly do you define sacking? I'll go with this one, from Cambridge Dictionary: "an attack on a building or town in which a lot of destruction is caused and many valuable things are stolen" > ... and you think that's "about as peaceful an outcome as we could possibly have hoped for"? Yes, as peaceful as we could have hoped for, considering that many of these people believe a satanic cult has undermined the US…

Just to take this one bit:

> You don't automatically achieve a coup by entering some building and interrupting some bureaucratic process

Sorry, but that's EXACTLY how coups work in the real world. You disrupt the government in such a way that the rule of law fails. In fact, it's been reported that at least one Trump goal was to push certification out beyond the 11 day (I think, details are fuzzy) deadline in the electoral count act and force the house to decide.

You're simply saying that it didn't work. But that's down as much to luck (a smallish crowd and multiple barriers to cross) and architecture (cold war escape tunnels) as it is to anything fundamental. It is VERY easy to imagine an alternate universe where Pelosi and Pence are still being held hostage right now.

Re: Twitch disables Trump’s account indefinitely

#94

Post by incrudible »

newacct583 wrote: post #93
incrudible wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How exactly do you define sacking? I'll go with this one, from Cambridge Dictionary: "an attack on a building or town in which a lot of destruction is caused and many valuable things are stolen" > ... and you think that's "about as peaceful an outcome as we could possibly have hoped for"? Yes, as peaceful as we could have hoped for, considering that many of these people believe a satanic cult has undermined the US…

Just to take this one bit: > You don't automatically achieve a coup by entering some building and interrupting some bureaucratic process Sorry, but that's EXACTLY how coups work in the real world. You disrupt the government in such a way that the rule of law fails. In fact, it's been reported that at least one Trump goal was to push certification out beyond the 11 day (I think, details are fuzzy) deadline in the elec…

> Sorry, but that's EXACTLY how coups work in the real world. You disrupt the government in such a way that the rule of law fails.

Come on. Rule of law doesn't stop working just because a couple of politicians don't get to sign papers on schedule. If it was that easy, the country wouldn't last a month without a successful coup.

> In fact, it's been reported that at least one Trump goal was to push certification out beyond the 11 day (I think, details are fuzzy) deadline in the electoral count act and force the house to decide.

I'd think the supreme court would have to decide if that's constitutional. If it is, then it's a crazy legal loophole and Trump would just be the first to exploit it.

> You're simply saying that it didn't work.

No. I'm saying that this "insurrection" is being blown out of proportion. Biden is elected. Trump has called his goons home.

> It is VERY easy to imagine an alternate universe where Pelosi and Pence are still being held hostage right now.

Sure, but moving forward, should we judge these people by what one might imagine could have happened, not what actually happened? I don't think so.

Re: Twitch disables Trump’s account indefinitely

#95

Post by newacct583 »

incrudible wrote: post #94
newacct583 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to take this one bit: > You don't automatically achieve a coup by entering some building and interrupting some bureaucratic process Sorry, but that's EXACTLY how coups work in the real world. You disrupt the government in such a way that the rule of law fails. In fact, it's been reported that at least one Trump goal was to push certification out beyond the 11 day (I think, details are fuzzy) deadline in the elec…

> Sorry, but that's EXACTLY how coups work in the real world. You disrupt the government in such a way that the rule of law fails. Come on. Rule of law doesn't stop working just because a couple of politicians don't get to sign papers on schedule. If it was that easy, the country wouldn't last a month without a successful coup. > In fact, it's been reported that at least one Trump goal was to push certification out b…

> If it is, then it's a crazy legal loophole and Trump would just be the first to exploit it.

Sorry (and apologies to Godwin but this is legitimate) but Hitler taking power in 1933 was through a "crazy legal loophole" too. Just stop it. Take it seriously. This was a failed coup, but still a coup. Historically, failed coups (c.f. Hitler in 1923) often get repeated, successfully.

Re: Twitch disables Trump’s account indefinitely

#96

Post by incrudible »

newacct583 wrote: post #95
incrudible wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sorry, but that's EXACTLY how coups work in the real world. You disrupt the government in such a way that the rule of law fails. Come on. Rule of law doesn't stop working just because a couple of politicians don't get to sign papers on schedule. If it was that easy, the country wouldn't last a month without a successful coup. > In fact, it's been reported that at least one Trump goal was to push certification out b…

> If it is, then it's a crazy legal loophole and Trump would just be the first to exploit it. Sorry (and apologies to Godwin but this is legitimate) but Hitler taking power in 1933 was through a "crazy legal loophole" too. Just stop it. Take it seriously. This was a failed coup, but still a coup. Historically, failed coups (c.f. Hitler in 1923) often get repeated, successfully.

> Sorry (and apologies to Godwin but this is legitimate) but Hitler taking power in 1933 was through a "crazy legal loophole" too.

Perhaps, but that wasn't a coup. Hitler actually won a democratic election.

> Just stop it. Take it seriously. This was a failed coup, but still a coup.

I think that's called a "coup attempt". Call it whatever you want, it is what is, not what it could have been. Either way, it couldn't have been successful, unless it somehow convinced senators to not certify the election, and even then there would've been a legal process ahead.

> Historically, failed coups (c.f. Hitler in 1923) often get repeated, successfully.

Trump getting legally re-elected in 2024 is of course a possibility. Maybe he'll somehow become a real dictator then. If that happens, you're allowed to call me "Mr. Chamberlain".

Re: Twitch disables Trump’s account indefinitely

#97

Post by adamsea »

barbacoa wrote: post #59
adamsea wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question - do you really believe the two situations are equivalent?

Are they equivalent? No. This is a clear escalation but the escalation is due to the deteriorating of our political discourse. I would not have been surprised if we saw something similar if Trump had won a 2nd term.

> I would not have been surprised if we saw something similar if Trump had won a 2nd term.

When you say similar, what do you mean? An armed mob breaking in to the Capital to stop Congress from certifying the electoral college votes and the President-elect? Requiring the evacuation of the entire Congress and the Vice-President to ensure their safety and avoid a potential hostage situation? And then planting pipe bombs in the Capital?

Or do you mean something else?

[EDIT: Look. Let’s be real. There is not a semblance of similarity and there hasn’t been for the past four years. What we saw today was unprecedented and seditious, on the part of the mob, the President himself, and anyone else involved in the planning or execution of this attempted coup. And anyone who can’t see the truth needs to do a real hard gut check right now, no joke.

Let’s also be real. White supremacists are in the minority and their numbers are dwindling. Their days are numbered. There’s more of us than them and at some point if they push hard enough all of us patriotic American citizens who actually respect the Constitution and the vision of justice the United States, at its best, represents, well, we will push back.

These folks lost the Civil War. If they really do want to bring it, it’ll be a tragedy and waste of human life, and, it won’t be a war they’ll win.

And any Trumpists, at this point, go fuck yourselves. You should be ashamed of the treasonous behavior you’ve enabled.

That’s the real talk, and people who hate on it, hate on it because they recognize the truth - you know it deep down, and, you are ashamed of yourselves.

Consider your actions. Anyone can change for the better, as difficult and unpleasant as the process is, it’s always worth the effort.

If I was religious like that I’d pray for you, because you don’t even know how badly you need some forgiveness.]

Re: Twitch disables Trump’s account indefinitely

#98

Post by fredophile »

barbacoa wrote: post #29
fredophile wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If somebody said "your democracatically elected government has been taken away but you should just go home," would you? Would the Trump supporters that raided the capital yesterday? The reason they will forever believe that the election was stolen is because Trump continues to say that the election was stolen.

People spent years de-legitimatizing the 2016 election by claiming that Trump colluded with the Russian government. There were even stories published by mainstream media outlets that Russians hack election machines. The other side undermining the election results after they lost is not exactly new.

There is a huge difference between saying "the winning campaign worked with a foreign government to spread disinformation" and "the votes were rigged. If you ignore the fraudulent ballots I won in a landslide."

There's also a long running argument in American politics about voter registration. Over the years both sides have had victories but after the elections no one claims the results of those elections were fraudulent.

Re: Twitch disables Trump’s account indefinitely

#99

Post by jaredklewis »

rq1 wrote: post #77

I completely and fundamentally disagree with Trump and his “ideology”. But how can we agree on the principle of censorship? I mean, if we agree with the idea of censorship, we also mechanically agree to get censored tomorrow by whoever is the new censor. Shouldn’t it be the same rule for everyone?

Well Twitch “censors” (aka moderates their platform) all the time and Trump is not the first account on Twitch to be disabled, so certainly Twitch would argue that they are applying “the same rules for everyone.”

More broadly, I disagree with your use of the word “censor.” Trump can say whatever he wants. But it doesn’t follow that if some company doesn’t want to publish his book or stream his video that it’s censorship.

Some places don’t have moderation (parler). Other places do (Twitch). That’s fine.

Re: Twitch disables Trump’s account indefinitely

#100

Post by ghthor »

dimal wrote: post #89
incrudible wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The part that says there's "an orderly transition of power". Trumpers will forever believe that the election was stolen, but they can believe that from the comfort of their homes, they don't need to go out and attempt to overthrow the government because of it. If any tech company were to try to suppress the "facts" that support the "rigged election" narrative, that would only reinforce the their beliefs.

It's one thing to say there will be an orderly transition of power, but the events of yesterday already made that statement false, and those events were incited by him. So saying something calming out of one side of his mouth doesn't excuse what he's saying out the other side.

They were not incited by him.
Post reply on HN