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Decoding the Peloton

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Re: Decoding the Peloton

#91

Post by matsemann »

onion2k wrote: post #49
hombre_fatal wrote: post #6

I was floored when I realized the Peloton has no games and it's closed to third-party developers. It seems to just have group classes which couldn't be less interesting to me. I'd ask "what were they thinking?" but it apparently sells like hotcakes, so it's me who's out of touch.

Adding games would get "people who want serious exercise equipment that they can play games on" to come to the product, but it might also put off "people who want serious exercise equipment to focus on exercise". In other words, adding games could actually make their market smaller . This is similar to Nintendo's rigourous curation of their platforms - allowing the latest Call of Duty game on the Switch might add a f…

> "people who want serious exercise equipment to focus on exercise"

I don't think that's Peloton's moat at all. For that there are much better alternatives. This is for casual gym goers.

Re: Decoding the Peloton

#92

Post by [deleted] »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #55
hombre_fatal wrote: post #6

I was floored when I realized the Peloton has no games and it's closed to third-party developers. It seems to just have group classes which couldn't be less interesting to me. I'd ask "what were they thinking?" but it apparently sells like hotcakes, so it's me who's out of touch.

You'd think building a competitor would be easy; build a bike with bluetooth i/o and an app for phone, tablet, laptop, smart TV etc. And open the API for developers, so they can hook their games up to it as much as they please. I'm guessing Peleton is winning at the minute because of it being an integrated unit and having the marketing.

[deleted]

Re: Decoding the Peloton

#93

Post by ska »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #55
hombre_fatal wrote: post #6

I was floored when I realized the Peloton has no games and it's closed to third-party developers. It seems to just have group classes which couldn't be less interesting to me. I'd ask "what were they thinking?" but it apparently sells like hotcakes, so it's me who's out of touch.

You'd think building a competitor would be easy; build a bike with bluetooth i/o and an app for phone, tablet, laptop, smart TV etc. And open the API for developers, so they can hook their games up to it as much as they please. I'm guessing Peleton is winning at the minute because of it being an integrated unit and having the marketing.

The product isn't really the hardware, it's the classes. Or at least it's the classes + hardware.

Being able to put hardware together that "does the same thing" is only a fraction of a competitor.

What you describe might work well for a different market.

Re: Decoding the Peloton

#94

Post by entee »

Wheaties466 wrote: post #60
_ihaque wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Author here) The Peloton also has power zone training similar to what you mentioned. With the instructors nattering on in the background, occasionally rotating the dial isn't so bad. I believe the newer version of the bike does have automatic resistance control, though.

yes the bike+ is advertised as being able to do that. But I haven't figured out how to take advantage of that.

It’s also apparently a closed protocol, so Zwift and third party apps can’t use it. Maybe peloton will open that up at some point, it would bring it a new market. I have a bike on a wahoo kickr core and it’s great, and I don’t have space for a dedicated bike. If I did, I’d totally go for one of the newer all-in-one bikes (easier, less hassle) and peloton is interesting if it can do the same things as that hardware.

Re: Decoding the Peloton

#95

Post by rconti »

matsemann wrote: post #90
eigthbits wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a road cyclist as well, used Zwift + Wahoo trainer for a few years. My wife really wanted a Peloton so we got one. I've ended up selling my Wahoo and do power zone training on the Peloton. The pedal stroke is smoother, far less vibration and noise. I don't have to worry about keeping sweat off a bike or having a bike on/off the trainer. It's so easy and convenient to get a 45 or 60 minute session in that my FTP i…

The direct drive trainers of later years are much much better than earlier trainers. The 2018 kickr for instance is much more smooth and silent than earlier models. So you may be comparing an obsolete $ trainer with a $$$ peloton bike.

It seems unfair to impugn the peloton bike as being "$$$" where a direct drive trainer is only "$" when the price difference is far from an order of magnitude, especially when you consider that you still need an entire bike to use with the direct-drive trainer.

Granted, the direct drive trainers and related software have functionality the Peloton does not have, particularly the pre-Bike+ peloton.

Re: Decoding the Peloton

#96

Post by rconti »

ubermonkey wrote: post #54

I'm a pretty serious road cyclist, so I get LOTS of questions about training, and about Peloton in particular, which is weird because serious outdoor riders are not really Peloton's market AT ALL. It's always been for spin people, and spin classes are their own thing entirely. Certainly SOME of my riding pals do spin during the week, but most of them are doing structured workouts using TrainerRoad or TrainingPeaks or…

I do a lot of power training on the Peloton (had it for 4 years now, been doing power training for.. 2.5?)

I agree that "serious outdoor riders are not really Peloton's market", and it comes across in literally every piece of snobbery about how a spin bike can't simulate real road feel and you'll never get your proper position and couldn't possibly train the same muscles and so on. I just smile and nod. The bike world is full of snobbery.

The older Pelotons do NOT adjust their resistance dynamically, you're right. I wouldn't call it baffling. I only change my resistance a handful of times (okay maybe 10, including little tweaks) during a class. Honestly it's kind of nice having those micro-steps. What else are you doing? It's sort of like people who can't be bothered to use their turn signal. I'm just sitting there pedaling away. I might as well turn a knob from time to time.

Re: Decoding the Peloton

#97

Post by rconti »

eigthbits wrote: post #88
ubermonkey wrote: post #54

I'm a pretty serious road cyclist, so I get LOTS of questions about training, and about Peloton in particular, which is weird because serious outdoor riders are not really Peloton's market AT ALL. It's always been for spin people, and spin classes are their own thing entirely. Certainly SOME of my riding pals do spin during the week, but most of them are doing structured workouts using TrainerRoad or TrainingPeaks or…

I'm a road cyclist as well, used Zwift + Wahoo trainer for a few years. My wife really wanted a Peloton so we got one. I've ended up selling my Wahoo and do power zone training on the Peloton. The pedal stroke is smoother, far less vibration and noise. I don't have to worry about keeping sweat off a bike or having a bike on/off the trainer. It's so easy and convenient to get a 45 or 60 minute session in that my FTP i…

There is a ton of crossover. Unsurprisingly, I see quite a few serious Peloton riders who "graduate" to direct-drive trainers and zwift or whatever, but I see just as many who try it and come back, or who migrate from that world TO the peloton.

In particular, I hear a lot of complaints about Zwift getting really boring. I'm not a gamer, but as a Peloton rider, I find the gamification aspect kind of appealing. I like the idea of visually racing someone on the screen, I'm competitive. It's the most appealing part of the platform. Changing gears and attaching my bike to the thing and finding room for it, and getting all teh sensors sorted is definitely NOT the appealing part.

Re: Decoding the Peloton

#98

Post by rconti »

matsemann wrote: post #64
_ihaque wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Author here) The Peloton also has power zone training similar to what you mentioned. With the instructors nattering on in the background, occasionally rotating the dial isn't so bad. I believe the newer version of the bike does have automatic resistance control, though.

Does the Peloton have ERG modus? Not only don't I have to mess with gearing/resistance as software can adjust my trainer, but my trainer will also make me keep my power target regardless of cadence. If I spin faster, it will make the resistance lighter such that my wattage stays the same.

No, and the power output is an estimate from calibration. It doesn't actually measure your realtime power.

Re: Decoding the Peloton

#99

Post by rconti »

mikestew wrote: post #74
ubermonkey wrote: post #54

I'm a pretty serious road cyclist, so I get LOTS of questions about training, and about Peloton in particular, which is weird because serious outdoor riders are not really Peloton's market AT ALL. It's always been for spin people, and spin classes are their own thing entirely. Certainly SOME of my riding pals do spin during the week, but most of them are doing structured workouts using TrainerRoad or TrainingPeaks or…

The Peloton, as I understand, doesn't dynamically adjust its resistance. On a $4K machine? The $800 NordicTrack rower we bought automatically adjusts resistance with their iFit programs. So people were just paying for an exercise bike with a big LCD screen? I'm astounded that they stayed in business long enough to release a second version that fixes this. VC money can fix that problem, but I'm also astounded that any…

It's less than half the price now. That's a pretty big detail to get wrong. You may be thinking of the Kickr bike, which is much more full-featured, and $3500 (so, still not $4k), but doesn't have a screen at all from what I can tell.

Re: Decoding the Peloton

#100

Post by rconti »

liminal wrote: post #63
hombre_fatal wrote: post #6

I was floored when I realized the Peloton has no games and it's closed to third-party developers. It seems to just have group classes which couldn't be less interesting to me. I'd ask "what were they thinking?" but it apparently sells like hotcakes, so it's me who's out of touch.

Sex appeal. Peloton is built on sex appeal. The instructors lead workouts wearing makeup, jewelry and bikini tops (well, the female ones anyway). Vox has an article [1] looking at SoulCycle and it sounds similar: instructors were good looking and exhorted to be incredibly thin. That said, it's a great way to get a good 30 minute cardio workout in. [1] https://www.vox.com/the-goods/22195549/soulcycle-decline-reo...

I'd say simplicity, too. I'm a long-time cyclist and a 4 year Peloton owner. I work in tech (obviously) but I frankly have only the vaguest idea of what combination of computers and displays and sensors and adapters I'd need to use to Zwift. And the slack channels I swim in seem to be full of folks always fiddling with what kinds of sensors to use and how to get them to reliably communicate.

You can just swipe a credit card (or, probably, ApplePay 1 button purchase) and have it show up at your house and work.

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