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In India, smartphones and cheap data are giving women a voice

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Re: In India, smartphones and cheap data are giving women a voice

#91
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't worry, no one is ever that interested in men being happy anyway.

That's because men are not victims of a system tailored to others' needs. Women are: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_inequality_in_India

And so your point is their happiness doesn't matter?

I can guarantee you there are many unhappy men that does see this so called advantage.

Re: In India, smartphones and cheap data are giving women a voice

#92
post #85
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’ve visited India, you wouldn’t be surprised. Most women do stay home and take care of kids And it’s really hard work btw, cooking and looking after the house and kids. They’re definitely not just “sitting home and drinking tea.”

Yes I exaggerate slightly. But I wonder a lot about the quality of this data. Doesn't about half the country still work on farms? Low-tech farming has endless labor for all kinds of hands, but little paperwork.

It's not exaggeration. It's disrespectful and taking their effort for granted.

Re: In India, smartphones and cheap data are giving women a voice

#93
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I exaggerate slightly. But I wonder a lot about the quality of this data. Doesn't about half the country still work on farms? Low-tech farming has endless labor for all kinds of hands, but little paperwork.

It's not exaggeration. It's disrespectful and taking their effort for granted.

To be clear, I mentioned this stereotype specifically to claim this is not what's happening.

Re: In India, smartphones and cheap data are giving women a voice

#94
post #85
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’ve visited India, you wouldn’t be surprised. Most women do stay home and take care of kids And it’s really hard work btw, cooking and looking after the house and kids. They’re definitely not just “sitting home and drinking tea.”

Yes I exaggerate slightly. But I wonder a lot about the quality of this data. Doesn't about half the country still work on farms? Low-tech farming has endless labor for all kinds of hands, but little paperwork.

I'm from an upper middle-class family in India and the data from all my relatives (including distant ones) matches this - 80% does seem about right for housewives. Similar for my friends.

It's changing rapidly with the newer generation but for my parents' generation that is definitely the norm.

Re: In India, smartphones and cheap data are giving women a voice

#95
post #77
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more than that. I know many women who quit their well-paying jobs because societally in the US we have not fully socialized child rearing in a way that China has. e.g.: Our infrastructure and attitudes about kids transport is in dire need of refactoring.

That's not necessarily a bad thing. What about women who prefer to see their kids grow up rather than endlessly chase paychecks?

I think we agree; labor participation rate for women may not be a good single-dimensional indicator of societal progress.

Re: In India, smartphones and cheap data are giving women a voice

#96

India's female labor participation rate is 20%. In China, it's 60%. Smartphones can help bridge that gap a bit but real progress will probably come from creating safe, well-paying jobs.

TIL China has a higher female labor participation rate than the US. Unexpected.

Why unexpected? The Soviet Union did too. A few reasons for that (for the Soviet Union; I know less about China):

1) One of the premises of communism is equality of all people, including equality of men and women. As a result, a bunch of official barriers to women's labor force participation that existed in the US up until recently were removed quite a bit earlier in communist countries. Not only that, but the right to a job was considered a basic human right in the Soviet constitution, and not having a job was a crime punishable by jail time starting in the early 60s (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasitism_(social_offense)#So... for some basic details). Note that this did not necessarily affect societal attitudes about household labor, by the way: women were just expected to both work _and_ do the cleaning/washing/cooking at home...

2) Female employment in the US surged during WWII to make up for all the men drafted into the military, then dropped as the size of the military was reduced in the aftermath. Something similar happened in the Soviet Union with women stepping into "men's jobs", but without as much of a corresponding drop after the war. Something to do with the fact that US deaths in WWII (combat and non-combat) were ~400k, which was about .6% of the male population in 1941, on the assumption that most of those deaths were males and males were half the total population. For the Soviet Union estimates for military deaths (mostly male) in WWII vary from ~8 million to ~14 million (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties_of_the... ), which corresponds to 4-7% of the 1941 total population. 8-14% of the male population if the pre-war breakdown between male and female was 50-50, which may or may not have been the case. Plus whatever the breakdown was among the ~10-15 million nonmilitary deaths in WWII in the USSR... But the upshot was that there were a lot more women alive than men after the war, which reduced he "men coming home and taking back their jobs" effect, because the men just did not come home.

Re: In India, smartphones and cheap data are giving women a voice

#97
post #78
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems unlikely this 20% number implies that 80% of women are sitting at home drinking tea & looking after kids. Where is it from? Is this formal sector employment? IIRC the informal labor market is something like 80% of the country in total. Lots of people work in ways that are difficult to gather statistics about.

If you’ve visited India, you wouldn’t be surprised. Most women do stay home and take care of kids And it’s really hard work btw, cooking and looking after the house and kids. They’re definitely not just “sitting home and drinking tea.”

Yeah, but it's a serious waste of their abilities as humans. It's no surprise that dual-professional households there who hire specialists for the cooking and looking after the house parts have better lives (as judged by the fact that few women who are professionals will want to become housewives while the opposite is a common desire).

Re: In India, smartphones and cheap data are giving women a voice

#98
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’ve visited India, you wouldn’t be surprised. Most women do stay home and take care of kids And it’s really hard work btw, cooking and looking after the house and kids. They’re definitely not just “sitting home and drinking tea.”

Yeah, but it's a serious waste of their abilities as humans. It's no surprise that dual-professional households there who hire specialists for the cooking and looking after the house parts have better lives (as judged by the fact that few women who are professionals will want to become housewives while the opposite is a common desire).

How is taking care of their children a serious waste of their abilities as humans?

When you look at all the BS jobs around, spending your time taking care of your family sounds much more productive and rewarding to me.

Re: In India, smartphones and cheap data are giving women a voice

#99
post #88
post #12

More than the statistics, it's the stories that open your imagination to the unlock connectivity is bringing. Using WhatsApp to report timber theft is something I would never have guessed.

This is something I found amazing about WeChat as well. You can schedule appointments with barbers, doctors, physicians, etc all through custom interfaces implemented by 3rd party vendors within the app. It's kind of like its own operating system. And for all of the needs that aren't already covered, you can always resort to basic text messaging (again through WeChat). This probably covers 100% of business communicat…

As of 2017, you can file court documents using WeChat.

https://www.scmp.com/tech/china-tech/article/2125804/tencent...

Re: In India, smartphones and cheap data are giving women a voice

#100

India's female labor participation rate is 20%. In China, it's 60%. Smartphones can help bridge that gap a bit but real progress will probably come from creating safe, well-paying jobs.

TIL China has a higher female labor participation rate than the US. Unexpected.

Seems related to the famous paradox that women in 'freer' countries choose _more_ gender-specific jobs. I think there's a natural explanation that relates to Maslow's Pyramid but anyway, just wanted to mention that if you haven't heard it.
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