Neofeudalism and the Digital Manor • Hacker News Board

Re: Neofeudalism and the Digital Manor

#91

Post by ClumsyPilot » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 1:41 AM UTC

thombles wrote: post #34

Unfortunately the way he describes the "Ulysses Pact" is fantasy. He makes it sound like it would be just like today, except a savvy user could sideload Signal for example if Apple was compelled to remove it. What would _actually_ happen is a long list of companies would say "brilliant, we don't have to conform to the app store guidelines any more" and go sideload-exclusive. Within a matter of months it would be comm…

"What would _actually_ happen is a long list of companies would say "brilliant, we don't have to conform to the app store guidelines any more" and go sideload-exclusive"

This hasn't happened in Android, why do you think it would happen with Apple?

Re: Neofeudalism and the Digital Manor

#92

Post by theamk » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 1:43 AM UTC

thombles wrote: post #34

Unfortunately the way he describes the "Ulysses Pact" is fantasy. He makes it sound like it would be just like today, except a savvy user could sideload Signal for example if Apple was compelled to remove it. What would _actually_ happen is a long list of companies would say "brilliant, we don't have to conform to the app store guidelines any more" and go sideload-exclusive. Within a matter of months it would be comm…

I dunno, Android has sideload capabilities forever - all you need to do is to go to setting and check the checkbox. But still, most people only use the google's store.

Even Chromebooks, which are super locked down by design, has "developer mode". It needs to be activated via obscure process, and when active it shows up a warning screen on every boot, but it is still there.

Re: Neofeudalism and the Digital Manor

#93

Post by AnthonyMouse » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 1:43 AM UTC

bigiain wrote: post #44

prutschman wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have reason to believe there's a problem with the gpg signatures in their repo?

The GPG sigs that are also published over MITMable unencrypted http? http://archive.canonical.com/dists/xenial/Release.gpg Yeah, I believe I see a problem there...

The entire point of signatures is that you don't have to trust the channel that delivers them.

The root of trust is the private key that comes with the operating system install ISO, but that you can download over HTTPS or have it delivered as physical media etc.

Re: Neofeudalism and the Digital Manor

#94

Post by AnthonyMouse » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 1:46 AM UTC

breck wrote: post #67

konjin wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IP laws are bad because they have been taken past any sane limit. However the original terms would are not too onerous, with provisions and updates there is no reason not to give the people who invent things short and clear monopolies on their ideas. 15 years is plenty of time, then everything needs to be released into the public domain.

Slavery laws are bad because they have been taken past any sane limit. However the original terms would are not too onerous, with provisions and updates there is no reason not to give the people with capital short and clear monopolies on their slaves. 15 years is plenty of time, then every slave needs to be released into the public domain.

I feel like you're now describing student debt.

Re: Neofeudalism and the Digital Manor

#95

Post by zepto » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 1:48 AM UTC

type0 wrote: post #85

zepto wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big difference between warlords and these companies is that a warlord uses force and often violence to gain power. These companies have gained power by selling things people are choosing to buy.

> warlord uses force and often violence to gain power. not necessary if they gain it after the power vacuum The behaviors these companies engage in are anti competitive. MS even saved Apple at one point so that in antitrust suit they could point out that other operating systems existed. GAFAM are not on the side of the people. For decades I never asked for a Windows license when buying PC, and yet I had no choice, mo…

“I never asked for a Windows license when buying PC, and yet I had no choice.”

I have owned countless computers since the mid 80’s, and I have never been forced to purchase a windows license or used windows on a computer I bought for myself.

There have always been options.

Re: Neofeudalism and the Digital Manor

#96

Post by coldtea » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 1:49 AM UTC

type0 wrote: post #79

coldtea wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What really puzzles me about Apple fans and it's userbase is that they do not care. They simply do not care at all what's being done to them. Or, you know, we're as informed (or more) than you, but have different priorities and opinions. Other people that are not merely mindless sheep, where you and those agreeing with you are the only smart people? What a wild concept! I've used anything, from 4 major unices of yo…

> I still enjoy macOS I would enjoy macOS if it subscribed to open source ideals, but then it wouldn't be Apple right > You are free to buy something else. That's exactly the advice I give to everyone who asks me about appel

>I would enjoy macOS if it subscribed to open source ideals, but then it wouldn't be Apple right

Yes, and what's more troubling, I think it also wouldn't be macOS.

macOS can be more open, but it can't "subscribe to open source ideals" (and even less so the "bazaar model") without stopping being macOS.

It offers something else, and some of it could be replicated in FOSS (e.g. Gnome has copied tons of those, as have certain distros), but part of it stems from it being walled, and curated.

And it's not cut and dry which parts are the latter ones.

E.g. I think that "deprecating things" the way Apple does and no FOSS would dare do (due to inertia and community-driven nature) makes macOS able to adopt new stuff faster, and adopt it more wholly (e.g. with no leftover apps with 10 layers of old GUIs like in Windows).

Similarly the "my way or the highway" from Apple helps keep the platform focused (as opposed to all the FOSS hoopla, X vs Wayland, KDE vs Gnome vs XFCE etc, systemd vs init, and tons of other minituae and duplication of effort). We'd still be discussing Metal in FOSS land (well, we have 10 years of moving from X to Wayland and it's still going on). In macOS it's a done deal.

(That's irrelevant of whether that new stuff is better or worse, btw. It can be either - but it can be either faster, and more uniformly. That's a quality FOSS lacks, and which I appreciate over customizability).

Re: Neofeudalism and the Digital Manor

#97

Post by schnable » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 1:50 AM UTC

breck wrote: post #36

We need to abolish IP Laws (aka "Imaginary Property" aka "Illogical Property" aka "Incongruent Property" aka "Invalidates Property Laws"—the other term is a big lie, don't repeat it). Not "reform". Not "compromise". Abolish. If 2020 taught me anything, it's that society can come close to the brink pretty quickly. I thought there was an inevitable trend toward freedom, but recently think it's perilous. We need ideas t…

> If 2020 taught me anything, it's that society can come close to the brink pretty quickly. I thought there was an inevitable trend toward freedom, but recently think it's perilous. We need ideas to flow to create a more distributed, less unequal, world, and we need it now. We need to unshackle the people.

This seems like an odd claim, as society as a whole was able to weather the pandemic overall in incredible comfort due to technology and content created under our IP regime. And we got a vaccine, covered by IP laws, to people with incredible speed. If anything - it's working well.

I think the burden is on you to demonstrate that we'd have these things without the IP environment of past 100 years.

Re: Neofeudalism and the Digital Manor

#98

Post by coldtea » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 1:50 AM UTC

konjin wrote: post #40

coldtea wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can very easily end up in that "minority". It's just an accident or disease away -- and if not, time and old age will get you anyway (presbyopia, motor decline, and so on).

I use a screen reader already. It is sad that you're so selfish that you can't imagine minorities would be willing to give up quality of life to improve it for the majority.

>It is sad that you're so selfish

Is that how you've been taught to discuss?

With ad-hominens, absolute self-certainty on your prioritizations, and pop psychology attacks?

Re: Neofeudalism and the Digital Manor

#99

Post by AnthonyMouse » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 1:53 AM UTC

ramphastidae wrote: post #82

f430 wrote: post #3

What really puzzles me about Apple fans and it's userbase is that they do not care . They simply do not care at all what's being done to them. It's the strongest example of consumer cultism. Absolute in their exceptionalism and ignorance. Similar problems discussed in the article are found in Tesla. The lowest common denominator of consumer cultism is surveillance and it's no surprise that both Apple and Tesla do exc…

And yet you can identify no real alternative. Last I checked Apple is the only company with a consumer-grade operating system that (1) has refused to turn over user data even after legal challenges from the federal government and (2) doesn’t generate revenues from advertising and selling user data.

Are you ignoring alternatives like Debian and PureOS? They may not be as widely used but they exist.

Re: Neofeudalism and the Digital Manor

#100

Post by thombles » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 1:54 AM UTC

itsoktocry wrote: post #81

thombles wrote: post #34

Unfortunately the way he describes the "Ulysses Pact" is fantasy. He makes it sound like it would be just like today, except a savvy user could sideload Signal for example if Apple was compelled to remove it. What would _actually_ happen is a long list of companies would say "brilliant, we don't have to conform to the app store guidelines any more" and go sideload-exclusive. Within a matter of months it would be comm…

So what you're saying is you are willing sacrifice personal privacy and security so that technically illiterate people can have a good user experience? I understand that from Apple's perspective, but I, personally, couldn't care less about the battery life on someone else's phone. I feel like the market would sort it out, probably with optional walled gardens. That's better, no?

> So what you're saying is you are willing sacrifice personal privacy and security so that technically illiterate people can have a good user experience?

Well, yes. Who is this for if not the tech-illiterate? I’ll be fine. I can use PGP and Tor if I want to.