Some of the most highly paid, privileged and marketable individuals in our industry, easily in the top 5% of income in the economy... what’s the point of this? Google employees are a far cry from the romanticized proletariat fighting against the bourgeoisie.
A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize
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Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize
#92What leverage do unions have over salaries? Google is a very profitable company, redirecting half of the profit from shareholders to employees would result in a very significant salary increase. (Just curious, I'm not stating any opinion on this.)
That depends on a number of things. Theoretically the leverage is infinite, as companies can not get anything done without workers. However in practice, strike funds won't last forever, people won't be willing to strike forever, it's in your interest to keep a relatively good relationship with the company, etc.
Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize
#93Don't think we've ever seen Hollywood in the modern era without unions, so not sure how you can claim it's "undeniable" the industry is better off. We basically have no clue if it's better off or not. Unions are intended for industries where a worker doesn't have a marketplace of options as there is a single or just a few employers (e.g. Hollywood, teachers, coal mining towns, hospital staff, etc.). Unionizing at Goo…
> Unions are intended for industries where a worker doesn't have a marketplace of options...
I'm not sure the cause and effect work that way, at least not entirely.
Unions do restrain roles of workers and structure compensation to particular patterns. It seems plausible to me that those sorts of restrictions are in some ways detrimental to companies that wish to (or need to) disrupt incumbents. It's plausible that they function as a sort of regulatory capture. In some cases, as with unions of government workers, literal regulator capture enters the picture too.
Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize
#94It seems incredibly significant that only 230 people are officially involved with these plans to unionize. As of 2019, Google had nearly 120,000 employees.[0] That seems quite small, relatively speaking.
Legally (I think, just learning about this now), to form a union, a majority of workers must show their willingness to form a union. Alternatively, to choose an existing union to join, an election with 30% of the workers support is required.[1]
So with that said, am I reading this right? Does this group of 230 people need to find at least ~40,000 more people for this to be a valid effort to form/join a legal union?
[0]https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/02/google-employee-growth-2001-...
[1]https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/how-to-form-a...
Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize
#95Don't think we've ever seen Hollywood in the modern era without unions, so not sure how you can claim it's "undeniable" the industry is better off. We basically have no clue if it's better off or not. Unions are intended for industries where a worker doesn't have a marketplace of options as there is a single or just a few employers (e.g. Hollywood, teachers, coal mining towns, hospital staff, etc.). Unionizing at Goo…
> People don't want to leave a cushy job for one where they would have to work harder for their money, so instead, they are trying other means to have their cake and eat it too. You're saying this like it's a bad thing. Why shouldn't employees expect, and get, better working conditions? > engineers can "collectively bargain" with Google by simply leaving and working somewhere "better" How is individuals leaving "coll…
Aren't most employees also shareholders, in the tech industry? Don't we have representation through that mechanism and why isn't it enough?
Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize
#96Good luck! From a fellow unionized digital worker. I work at Kakao, a South Korean firm known for KakaoTalk (the dominant messenger application in South Korea).
How would you describe your experience being a unionized digital worker?
Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize
#97Perhaps App store publishers can unionize too. For example, instead of having small companies publishing apps themselves, they can have an organization do it for them, so it's big organization versus BigCorp, instead of little guy versus BigCorp. Also, it could provide some more transparency of the App Store sales.
Is there precedent for a group of unrelated individuals who happen to be in the same industry ‘unionizing’ ? Edit: answer of course is guilds, thanks commenters :) The word union threw me off. One could totally imagine an ‘app developers guild’ to help defend against the big guys. Go start one!
And sometimes the guild took the reins from the the state! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanseatic_League
Say what you will about (proto-)mercantilism vs capitalism, but I rather live under guild-ocracy then cyberpunk megacrop-ocracy.
Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize
#98When I talk to colleagues in tech about unions I hear a lot of misconceptions, seemingly based in stereotypes about what unions are for and who they serve. People often seem to think of unions as being purely blue-collar operations, and this just isn't true. For example, I've had people tell me that they don't support unions in tech because they'll be "paid less", or less competent engineers will be promoted faster.…
>When I talk to colleagues in tech about unions I hear a lot of misconceptions
Because everyone talking about unionization refuses to get into the nitty gritty of what I might gain, what I might lose, and the structural changes to the workplaces that are inherent with unionization.
And if/when I/others start spitballing about what those might be we're treated like dolts uneducated on organized labor, and should just shut my mouth and get on board.
>they don't always get it right
This is the closest anyone every gets to saying something, but it doesn't mean anything. Where the fuck is the actual case study about the structure of the system, constraints, influences, incentives? How does it evolve and how does the contract change and evolve that system?
>I don't pretend that Hollywood is a perfect utopia of worker relations, but I think it's pretty undeniable that the industry is a much better place with the unions around.
SHOW don't TELL.
tl;dr: Don't tell me I want a union contract, tell me what the terms of the contract will be and I'll decide for myself. I'm probably on board, but every time someone glosses over the details you push me further and further away.
Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize
#99What leverage do unions have over salaries? Google is a very profitable company, redirecting half of the profit from shareholders to employees would result in a very significant salary increase. (Just curious, I'm not stating any opinion on this.)
AWU includes temps, vendors, and contractors (TVCs), who are not at all paid the way full-time employees are. I'm sure there's a lot of gains to make to ensure everyone has equitable pay. That said, a lot of work that AWU is doing focuses on values organizing and employee ethics. Structures like this union help balance the power between workers and executives at Alphabet.
that's ominous, so if you don't tow the union line on the social issue of the day then they can prevent you from being a member which will be required for employment?
Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize
#100Googler here, these articles are literally the first I've heard of it. No internal emails, rabblerousing, or any kind of comms about it, and it seems as though the union discussed doesn't actually exist yet. Seems a bit odd (and bad reporting), but we'll see where it goes. After watching how a mechanics union did absolutely nothing while CEOs ripped apart my Dad's pension and put him through hell, I have a bit of a d…
Not to put too fine a point on it, but usually the people who know about the union before it's announced are those who are understood to support the idea & are unlikely to go to management about it :)
This is the first I've ever suggested an opinion on it publicly, and I'm a line engineer, not management. Internally, I don't usually talk about things like this, either.