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Average Rent in San Francisco Has Dropped $1k This Year

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Re: Average Rent in San Francisco Has Dropped $1k This Year

#91

Post by AmVess »

cwilkes wrote: post #80
pydry wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a side effect of de-taxing land. The more land becomes an asset and the less it becomes a liability (e.g. by capping property taxes) , the greater incentive there is to hoard it and jealously guard its value with NIMBYism which leads to even less development, greater shortages and even higher prices on an upward spiral. Saying "it's about supply and demand" is not technically wrong but it glosses over the toxic…

But they are using land productively as they are making $3100 a month off of a small studio. Also I doubt if raising taxes will result in anything more than them passing that cost on to the renters.

Raising taxes on the land owner will result in increased rents. Land owners are not in the business of giving money away.

Re: Average Rent in San Francisco Has Dropped $1k This Year

#92

Post by wpietri »

SllX wrote: post #13
NineStarPoint wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do they ignore it, or are they using it for their own gain? For people who actually own property in San Fransisco, consider how enriched they have become by the obscenely rising rent/real estate prices. This comes along with them getting to keep their neighborhoods static instead of having to have a gigantic shadow erected across the street. Sure there are downsides, but you can always just sell and get our with a pr…

Both. I spent the last decade having these conversations with people who also grew up here and can’t afford to remain here without staying with their parents, with some of the stranger conversations devolving into my counter parties brainstorming ways to kick tech people out of the City and stop new people from moving in altogether, as if freedom of movement in the United States wasn’t really a thing. It’s not “suppl…

> freedom of movement in the United States

To the extent that this means the freedom of poor people to get out of the way of rich people, you can see how some would not be excited. SF's black population has fallen by half in recent decades, for example.

Honestly, the geographic narrowness of the tech boom has always been weird. At the same time we've been selling the limitless power of the Internet to connect people, we've also been working for companies whose structures didn't demonstrate that, and in a financing ecosystem where physical proximity to VCs was a major advantage. So San Francisco got turned into a bedroom community for South Bay companies in areas that refused to build adequate housing for their workers.

Thanks to the pandemic, that is evaporating. We'll see what happens in 6-12 months, when everybody's vaccinated. But the people I'm talking to are unable to remember why commuting every day was ever a thing, and they're very reluctant to go back to it. In which case, we'll write SF's housing issues off as just another bubble.

Re: Average Rent in San Francisco Has Dropped $1k This Year

#93

Post by deeeeplearning »

ihaveajob wrote: post #52
xyst wrote: post #40

If the city would rezone all of the single family homes into higher density buildings, this wouldn't be a problem. Flood the area with supply and the cost will go down to reasonable levels. This is a problem all across the nation. Everyone wants a single family home, so this leads to two things: outrageously high costs of homes, or people moving out to the suburbs and thus worsening the rush hour traffic and smog iss…

Honestly I'm surprised no other city in the bay area has taken the baton and aimed to overtake SF in terms of relevance by becoming the densest, most thriving city in the region. Oakland is at least trying to cope with demand in some neighborhoods. I'm rooting for that.

Well most of those cities are full of the Richer Nimbys who can afford to buy and commute to SF.

Re: Average Rent in San Francisco Has Dropped $1k This Year

#95

Post by mym1990 »

the-dude wrote: post #10

I have somewhat inside info about a drop in rent for commercial real estate in a high end shopping street in NL ( The Netherlands ). This is unheard of, real estate owners rather keep a shop vacant than drop the rent. I think we have seen nothing yet in commercial real estate, obviously not limited to SF or NL.

There is overhead cost to having tenants as well that may not make the drop in rent worth it. As someone mentioned, if you drop rent by a significant amount, banks have to adjust you potential profitability, and that's a big downside. Its also harder to get rent prices back to where they were once you drop them.

Re: Average Rent in San Francisco Has Dropped $1k This Year

#96

Post by RhodesianHunter »

TrackerFF wrote: post #86
xyst wrote: post #40

If the city would rezone all of the single family homes into higher density buildings, this wouldn't be a problem. Flood the area with supply and the cost will go down to reasonable levels. This is a problem all across the nation. Everyone wants a single family home, so this leads to two things: outrageously high costs of homes, or people moving out to the suburbs and thus worsening the rush hour traffic and smog iss…

Having lived on another island, with the same woes of SF (limited land, high growth), the problem is always the same - even though it's been on a much smaller scale. The people that have owned for the past 30-50 years, are completely unwilling to give up on their single family homes, gardens, etc. They basically demand to live a nice and cushy suburban life, in the middle of a big city. It then takes forever to build…

> unwilling to give up on their single family homes

I think that expecting people to "give up their homes" is more than unreasonable. The reasonable compromise being that builders can build in more densely once the current owners sell it.

Re: Average Rent in San Francisco Has Dropped $1k This Year

#97

Post by mola »

SllX wrote: post #13
NineStarPoint wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do they ignore it, or are they using it for their own gain? For people who actually own property in San Fransisco, consider how enriched they have become by the obscenely rising rent/real estate prices. This comes along with them getting to keep their neighborhoods static instead of having to have a gigantic shadow erected across the street. Sure there are downsides, but you can always just sell and get our with a pr…

Both. I spent the last decade having these conversations with people who also grew up here and can’t afford to remain here without staying with their parents, with some of the stranger conversations devolving into my counter parties brainstorming ways to kick tech people out of the City and stop new people from moving in altogether, as if freedom of movement in the United States wasn’t really a thing. It’s not “suppl…

There so much land in the US. People don't have to live in San Fransisco. These people grew up there, they want to live in their home. You know, that emotional thing that money can't really explain. Sure they see the people arriving in, with huge paychecks that drive prices up, and them out as bad.

Any human will, a rational agent won't.

Re: Average Rent in San Francisco Has Dropped $1k This Year

#98

Post by deeeeplearning »

PedroBatista wrote: post #7

Drop 50% and then we can start to talk about reasonable values..

SF is still a major city and there are premiums due to that. You're talking about having rents in SF close to those in places like Nashville or Dallas which I think is totally unrealistic.

Re: Average Rent in San Francisco Has Dropped $1k This Year

#99

Post by robbyt »

Dear SF,

More apartments built will not help make housing more affordable for normal people.

Learn about the NYC real estate market- even pre covid apartment vacancy was extremely high, and the true numbers are unknown because building developers are manipulating the market by releasing units slowly.

With all the excessive inventory in NYC, you'd think that a normal person (defined by median income) could afford to buy... But it's still not possible here.

Re: Average Rent in San Francisco Has Dropped $1k This Year

#100

Post by wbl »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #65
ihaveajob wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I'm surprised no other city in the bay area has taken the baton and aimed to overtake SF in terms of relevance by becoming the densest, most thriving city in the region. Oakland is at least trying to cope with demand in some neighborhoods. I'm rooting for that.

I would say it’s basically impossible to recreate a dense city based on today’s codes of construction requiring numerous safety/ADA measures in the US. In an existing city, the cost to purchase land and buildings that would need to demolished, rezoned, and rebuilt as a higher density area with accompanying infrastructure is astronomical and wouldn’t be possibly by anyone other than the federal government only because…

Change the zoning and speed permits and watch it happen.
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