Lost nuclear device atop of Nanda Devi • Hacker News Board

Re: Lost nuclear device atop of Nanda Devi

#91

Post by mannykannot » Sun, Dec 27, 2020, 1:16 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #71

mannykannot wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. Either this was some sort of fission device (utterly implausible, IMHO - where's the moderator, for just one thing), or the "wave of heat" mentioned in the article is, shall we say, embellishment.

> Either this was some sort of fission device (utterly implausible, IMHO - where's the moderator, for just one thing) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_thermoelectric_ge...

Yes, this was an RTG. An RTG is not a fission device. An RTG uses the heat from the radioactive decay (alpha decay, in this case, with some contribution from the beta decay of the daughter nuclides, once they have formed) of the fuel. As khuey said above, this cannot be started or stopped.

Re: Lost nuclear device atop of Nanda Devi

#92

Post by secondcoming » Sun, Dec 27, 2020, 1:22 PM UTC

mhh__ wrote: post #35

SoSoRoCoCo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine what happened that WASN'T documented. This is totally off-topic but related to your post: The CIA LSD testing was completely off the books. The journalists who uncovered it relied on hundreds of interviews. The CIA simply hired Sidney Gottlieb to do whatever he wanted to with zero oversight because the CIA wanted to achieve mind-control before the Russians. Gottlieb literally bought all of the LSD in the worl…

It's not impossible that British efforts along those lines are even worse because we know that they did play with (not quite as "move fast and break things" as the CIA) LSD, but there's no real pressure or habit of properly declassifying material from the depths like this (MI5 do publish a little, SIS do not at all, ever... no matter how hard you ask). What little MKULTRA material exists was preserved almost purely b…

This is quite funny. Testing LSD on British soldiers:

https://youtu.be/ziqpwkhqTRs

Re: Lost nuclear device atop of Nanda Devi

#93

Post by mannykannot » Sun, Dec 27, 2020, 1:24 PM UTC

at_a_remove wrote: post #68

mannykannot wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe it was stolen. The story mentions this as being a concern at the time, but if we take the story to be substantially correct, the idea that a foreign government would learn about the device, and then mount a secret expedition to find and recover it during the season climbing is regarded as infeasible, just seems to be paranoid nonsense.

We have a long and rich history of people who have no idea about radiation finding something radioactive, taking it home, and showing everyone. I can only imagine that some device that stays hot without any fuel would be of great interest to people who are habitually cold.

You will not find people wandering around near the summit (or in the avalanche chutes, where the device probably ended up, buried in snow and ice) of Nanda Devi in the season when even the accomplished mountaineers who left the device there considered it too dangerous to climb - this is one of the tallest and more lethal of the Himalayan peaks.

Re: Lost nuclear device atop of Nanda Devi

#94

Post by wu_187 » Sun, Dec 27, 2020, 1:39 PM UTC

tobylane wrote: post #89

baybal2 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are already things way worse than plutonium in Ganga.

What are you referring to?

dead bodies

Re: Lost nuclear device atop of Nanda Devi

#95

Post by getlawgdon » Sun, Dec 27, 2020, 1:57 PM UTC

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #11

For people who don't want to slog through the long-form article for the few tidbits of actual information: "Nuclear device" does not refer to a nuclear weapon in this case, it was a radio signal capturing device powered by a RTG. They had to abandon the first one when trying to install it due to bad weather and couldn't find it again. Maybe it was stolen, maybe it just melted its way under many meters of ice and snow…

Comments like yours about "slogging through long form writing" are becoming more common. I find it concerning. Your summary bis quite inadequate to me and misses many points while assuming the one you're clarifying is the point. It isn't. Longer writing has great value; let's give it more room.

Re: Lost nuclear device atop of Nanda Devi

#96

Post by adamcharnock » Sun, Dec 27, 2020, 1:57 PM UTC

Ericson2314 wrote: post #2

The more one learns, the more it seems like the CIA spent the whole cold war poorly executing silly stunts,

I'm starting to suspect there this is something pretty widespread thought history. I've been reading The Anarchy, which is a history of the East India Company (EIC), and it is full of blunders on all sides.

When the EIC first set out from London on their maiden voyage to India, they we're becalmed (stuck without wind) in the mouth of the Thames for 6 months. Just sat there, maybe 50 miles from home.

During some battle, one of the leaders was so high on opium that he was just dawdling around and got shot in the head.

At one point the EIC captured a fort next to one of their factories, then got so distracted looting that a few hours later the enemy returned, re-captured the fort, then forced the EIC out of their original factory.

The more I talk to people in positions of power (which is not many, but a few) the more I get the impression that everyone is just going the best they can against the randomness of the universe. (Side note - one of the may reasons I find conspiracy theories hard to believe)

Re: Lost nuclear device atop of Nanda Devi

#97

Post by ignoramous » Sun, Dec 27, 2020, 2:06 PM UTC

tobylane wrote: post #89

baybal2 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are already things way worse than plutonium in Ganga.

What are you referring to?

Pollution of the Ganges: https://www.gettyimages.in/photos/pollution-on-river-ganga?s...

Re: Lost nuclear device atop of Nanda Devi

#98

Post by WarOnPrivacy » Sun, Dec 27, 2020, 3:45 PM UTC

bigbubba wrote: post #44

nafizh wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So after 870 years, it begins to pollute the water?

One RTG is nothing, a handful of whole nuclear reactors have been dumped into the ocean before (a few of the accidentally, and a few of the deliberately.)

Adding Fukashima and dozens of nuclear tests. It's like we tried to chemo the ocean for 30 years.

Re: Lost nuclear device atop of Nanda Devi

#99

Post by gumby » Sun, Dec 27, 2020, 3:48 PM UTC

getlawgdon wrote: post #95

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #11

For people who don't want to slog through the long-form article for the few tidbits of actual information: "Nuclear device" does not refer to a nuclear weapon in this case, it was a radio signal capturing device powered by a RTG. They had to abandon the first one when trying to install it due to bad weather and couldn't find it again. Maybe it was stolen, maybe it just melted its way under many meters of ice and snow…

Comments like yours about "slogging through long form writing" are becoming more common. I find it concerning. Your summary bis quite inadequate to me and misses many points while assuming the one you're clarifying is the point. It isn't. Longer writing has great value; let's give it more room.

I agree with your sentiment but the GP’s comment has a long lineage: readers’ digest condensed books, “bluffer’s guides” and the like, stretching back into antiquity.

Re: Lost nuclear device atop of Nanda Devi

#100

Post by WarOnPrivacy » Sun, Dec 27, 2020, 4:03 PM UTC

octoberfranklin wrote: post #51

Why on earth did they not turn on the telemetry system before abandoning the device? At least that way you could ping the damn thing from a helicopter and triangulate the replies.

They would have had to assemble it during an imminently deadly storm.

Given the vibe of story, I'd wager the climbers weren't given specific instructions for an abandonment scenario.