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Stanford apologizes after vaccine allocation leaves out medical residents

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Re: Stanford apologizes after vaccine allocation leaves out medical residents

#91
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I was assuming anything in particular about the intents. it's a rather important thing not to check on actual data, including residents in the sample, isn't it? they just never bothered to test the algorithm, didn't even review the results it spit out, before delivering the results as a plan? (it is quite possible indeed they didn't, I'm not saying that is a coverup for some other motive, I'm saying tha…

Well, we're all agreed that this was a dumb mistake that could've been easily avoided. And, the admins should own up to it and implement a QA process to avoid a second occurrence. That said, I think the reason this story is getting so much attention is because of the assumed selfish intent. And, that assumption is probably wrong.

This is being painted as a technical error, but the only actual mistake was a miscalculation of the amount of blowback they would receive.

Re: Stanford apologizes after vaccine allocation leaves out medical residents

#92

> "[A]lgorithms are made by people and the results ... were reviewed multiple times by people," You got that right. The way they talk about "an algorithm did it" makes it seem as as if they think that somehow explains it, like there was only one algorithm possible handed down from god or something. We'll be seeing more and more of this of course. "We can't be blamed, it was an algorithm! We can't be blamed for trusti…

I do think people understand that. Blaming the algorithm is a way of saying that we agreed on the rules by which vaccines would be assigned and that they were fair. And that we can’t just go back and change them because we don’t like the results when the rules are applied. At that point why even have a formal process for assigning vaccines when all we’re doing is coming a post-hoc justification for a particular outcome. If we already know the outcome we want then just use that!

Re: Stanford apologizes after vaccine allocation leaves out medical residents

#93

> "[A]lgorithms are made by people and the results ... were reviewed multiple times by people," You got that right. The way they talk about "an algorithm did it" makes it seem as as if they think that somehow explains it, like there was only one algorithm possible handed down from god or something. We'll be seeing more and more of this of course. "We can't be blamed, it was an algorithm! We can't be blamed for trusti…

"Machine learning is like money laundering for bias" https://twitter.com/pinboard/status/744595961217835008

"To err is human, but to really foul things up you need a computer."

- Senator Soaper

https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/12/07/foul-computer/#:~:t....

Re: Stanford apologizes after vaccine allocation leaves out medical residents

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Machine learning is like money laundering for bias" https://twitter.com/pinboard/status/744595961217835008

I am not a native speaker and I don't think I understand the quote. What should "money laundering for bias mean"?

To add to the other answers, machine learning based on biased datasets results in biased models. For example, Word2Vec can be used to make analogies. Having it determine "Man is to woman as king is to ___." results in "queen", which is reasonable. On the other hand, determining "Man is to computer programmer as woman is to ___." results in "homemaker". The algorithm wasn't deliberately designed to have sexist bias in it, but there was implicit bias in the dataset from which it learned.

https://www.technologyreview.com/2016/07/27/158634/how-vecto...

As another example, predictive policing tries to place police in places with higher crime rates. Those crime rates are determined by looking at past history of police reports and arrests. That past history has human bias already in it, with disproportionately higher arrest rates in places with racial minorities. The effect of the predictive policing is to justify overpolicing of minorities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predictive_policing#Criticisms

Re: Stanford apologizes after vaccine allocation leaves out medical residents

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Machine learning is like money laundering for bias" https://twitter.com/pinboard/status/744595961217835008

I am not a native speaker and I don't think I understand the quote. What should "money laundering for bias mean"?

Since computers are unbiased, the idea is that machine learning is also unbiased. However, that's not true and, if anything, it actually re-enforces a lot of bias.

I've never done any, but my understanding is that machine learning is just correlation. It's good at figuring out "what", but not "why". Consider training an algorithm to recognize horses by feeding it millions of pictures of horses. Eventually, the algorithm "learns" what a horse is, but it's definition of a horse is based on the inputs it was given by a human.

So now, consider the scenario where the millions of pictures of horses were all brown. If you give the algorithm a picture of a white horse, it'll tell you it's not a horse. If you give it a picture of a brown donkey, it might think it's a horse because it's learned to put too much emphasis on the color brown.

If that algorithm becomes relied on to define a horse, "the system" will insist there are no white horses even though you can walk outside and see them plain as day.

Now, apply the same kind of idea and feed an algorithm mugshots of all criminals. It's going to develop the same bias and tell you that a black person is more likely to be a criminal than a white person. There's no nuance. The inputs used to train the AI were tainted by decades of systematic discrimination, but the AI doesn't know that.

Of course you could try to take that input bias into account, but the whole sales pitch of machine learning is that you feed it tons of data and it gives you an objective result. As far as I know, no one is trying to quantify, and correct, the biases in the inputs.

The phrase "money laundering for bias" means the machine learning algorithms are used to re-enforce incorrect opinions and assumptions because it gives the excuse that an "objective" computer used cold hard data to draw the same conclusion.

Machine learning is one of the scariest parts of tech right now because it's the equivalent of an extremely stupid person that only understands correlation and not causality and the systems being built are going to be making a lot of decisions at scale.

Re: Stanford apologizes after vaccine allocation leaves out medical residents

#96
post #57

Evidence like this suggest that medical leadership for the most part care very little about house officers (residents), and that is pretty universal. Our institution built a new billion dollar hospital and did not include call rooms. Great job.

I found this opinion interesting: https://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2015/09/how-call-rooms-reflect-...

If you visit this page with an ad blocker enabled, nothing renders. If you disable your ad blocker on the page, well, god help you:

https://ibb.co/PskWz4d

A couple alternative links for reading:

- https://outline.com/udkxSE

- https://pastebin.com/5MQE91k3

Re: Stanford apologizes after vaccine allocation leaves out medical residents

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Machine learning is like money laundering for bias" https://twitter.com/pinboard/status/744595961217835008

I am not a native speaker and I don't think I understand the quote. What should "money laundering for bias mean"?

Money laundering is a crime in which one takes money or goods taken through criminal activities (e.g., theft) and sends it through some process, usually a cover, like a business or something, to make it appear legitimate. More generally, it refers to the process by which money or resources obtained through ethically questionable means is passed through layers of other activities so as to obscure its original source.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_laundering

So the idea is, you have some bias in some process (racial, religious, whatever). You set up some algorithm that relies on the bias to make predictions or classifications. Now you can say it's not you that's biased, it's just the algorithm. The algorithm is some process by which your bias is "made legitimate".

Re: Stanford apologizes after vaccine allocation leaves out medical residents

#98

> "[A]lgorithms are made by people and the results ... were reviewed multiple times by people," You got that right. The way they talk about "an algorithm did it" makes it seem as as if they think that somehow explains it, like there was only one algorithm possible handed down from god or something. We'll be seeing more and more of this of course. "We can't be blamed, it was an algorithm! We can't be blamed for trusti…

In general, blaming the algorithm is an indirect way of blaming software engineers. From Facebook to the VW emissions scandal to Stanford’s vaccine allocation, people love narratives that blame engineers. I suspect this trend will only get worse as the general public realizes that engineers are now a highly compensated professional, similar to how lawyers are the butt of so many jokes.

I don’t think people necessarily love narratives that blame engineers. Why would they?

Some specific people in positions of responsibility that screw up badly see blaming engineers/tech as an easy way out of their responsibilities.

Similar outcome different thing.

Re: Stanford apologizes after vaccine allocation leaves out medical residents

#99
Since this algorithm is obviously flawed this way, is it likely to be flawed with respect to the timing of the second dose?

Every report I’ve seen from experiment subjects (who may have received the placebo) indicates that the second dose sucked for 2-3 days, and was much worse than the first.

If you give all your, for example, ICU staff the second dose at the same time, and then they can’t work for 2 days, how do you staff that?

Did you plan for this, or will it be a surprise that “The Algorithm” missed?

Re: Stanford apologizes after vaccine allocation leaves out medical residents

#100
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can name 3 other local hospital systems in my city that have vaccinated administrative & C-suite/VP level staff I don't understand why society is putting up with this. Right now if you're not in a daily COVID-facing role (i.e. an actual front line medical worker) or in a nursing home you should not be getting the shot. This makes my blood boil. There should have been laws passed regarding ordering of the distribu…

And all is plebs do is comment on their actions. If they have no consequences why would they stop screwing us?

Now you see why social media is so powerful. People just bitch and do nothing about this stuff, it's the perfect tool for pacification. Right now I'm bitching but next I'm going to go play video games, so you can see how it works even when you know it's there.
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