America Lacks Meaningful Innovation • Hacker News Board

Re: America Lacks Meaningful Innovation

#91

Post by scott_s » Sat, May 14, 2011, 1:11 PM UTC

david927 wrote: post #87

scott_s wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I say this without irony: I think that Facebook changes everything. If Facebook is not around in 10 years, then at least one social networking site will be. People want to be able to easily communicate online with the people they know in a global way. Facebook is becoming the global human database.

You're right that a global database, partially about us and our relationships (including a social network), is the future. Many are working on it, including me. And Facebook has some seed data for that, but that's the extent of it. We'll remember Facebook in ten years the way we remember MySpace now: We don't. Facebook changes nothing.

I can see the changes Facebook has made in how people communicate right now. This is not a prediction, I can observe it. I know people who no longer use email and exclusively use Facebook for online communication. They share vacation photos with their family and friend sthrough Facebook. They announce life-changing events through Facebook. I, personally, have maintained communication with people that normally I would have just stopped talking to. These are not hypotheticals. These are real, actual changes in how I and others communicate. Facebook has an order of magnitude more users than the previous attempts - Friendster and MySpace - and is able to have much more impact than them because of it.

If you're working in the same space as Facebook, you're not doing yourself any favors by denying its impact. One, it harms your perspective, and two, it harms your credibility.

Re: America Lacks Meaningful Innovation

#92

Post by gmt2027 » Sat, May 14, 2011, 1:20 PM UTC

We are a generation of fluff and polish.

Today's most celebrated young 'engineer' is Mark Zuckerberg, creator of a really cool way to rank hot chicks, measure faux popularity and extend the social dyamics of high school into the real world. We make dramatically scored movies about his trials and ultimate triumph and rank Facebook as the greatest company to emerge in the last half-decade with a $50bn valuation.

Where is our Alexander Graham Bell, Henry Ford, Thomas Edison, Nikola Tesla or even Howard Hughes? Is it Steve Jobs and his charisma? What we consider innovation has taken the form of the iPhone and the iPad, fancier toys in polished packages with glaringly less functionality than is a technical possibility today, conveniently dumbed-down so it is easier to keep us not thinking too hard and, God-forbid, doing anything really imaginative.

Sure there is interesting work being done out there in green energy, space, biotech and nanotechnology research. These were all conceivable decades ago. We are unable to create good science fiction anymore because our imagination is just as bad as it was in the 1800s. My God, they built driverless cars that work, why isn't that game-changing Google spin-off the hot new company of the decade? Does anyone even know the name of the former Stanford Professor whose work could lower accident rates, eliminate traffic jams and parking problems, make automobile ownership obsolete and drastically cut down emissions and manufacturing waste? We could have a real transportation cloud that actually does something useful other than being a repository for our videos and photos that allows 'sharing with family and friends'.

We are complacent enough to only care about things that distract us from actually being productive. Just about any system out there leaves huge room for improvement. Everything is broken or needlessly inefficient: the government, the legal, financial, energy, educational, healthcare, transportation, and disaster management systems. Even the Internet is broken. We should be building efficient sustainable systems that scale, not software. Real innovation requires an iterate-or-die mindset.

I am an African. Don't even get me started on the developing world.

Re: America Lacks Meaningful Innovation

#93

Post by FrojoS » Sat, May 14, 2011, 1:30 PM UTC

iamelgringo wrote: post #81

Poppycock. Health care's problems in the United States are not technical. Health Care's problems are regulatory, and systemic. (My day job is in health care for the last 20 years in 35 hospitals in 5 states.) Health care's problems in poor countries are primarily due to a lack of hygine and clean water. Most of the rest of their problems can be helped with decent tropical disease vaccine research. That’s not an inter…

Awesome post, thanks a lot! I saw the headline and the first thing that popped into my mind was "Tesla Motors".

My country has spent millions over decades and decades to make German car builders to innovate electric cars. Now those companies bought shares from Tesla because they think those guys are to far ahead to close the gap otherwise.

Heck, if America lacks meaningful inovation, then where else will you find it on this planet?

Re: America Lacks Meaningful Innovation

#94

Post by FrojoS » Sat, May 14, 2011, 1:46 PM UTC

gmt2027 wrote: post #92

We are a generation of fluff and polish. Today's most celebrated young 'engineer' is Mark Zuckerberg, creator of a really cool way to rank hot chicks, measure faux popularity and extend the social dyamics of high school into the real world. We make dramatically scored movies about his trials and ultimate triumph and rank Facebook as the greatest company to emerge in the last half-decade with a $50bn valuation. Where…

Helping to connect all humans on the planet is not important? This has been said many time before and you don't have to agree with it, but imho Facebook is a really important and revolutionary tool that has improved many lives including my own. Sometimes the benefits where beyond my expectations.

I think, the reason why you see so much development in software, is because its easy! I'm a mechanical engineer and still spend most of my time writing code. Why? Because, all I need as PC! No staff, regulations, no material, no manufacturing tools. This saves time and money and makes you independent and fast. The entrance barrier is just very, very low, so as long as there is any demand for innovation in software, there will be someone who will try to code.

I have this "to much software" feeling all the time, too. We definitely need more innovation in hardware. Luckily, with innovations like 3D printers or Polycaprolactone the entrance barrier for hardware is becoming lower, too. However, in my experience, even these trends are largely fulled and based on software. We are living in the Information Age.

Re: America Lacks Meaningful Innovation

#95

Post by FrojoS » Sat, May 14, 2011, 1:52 PM UTC

scott_s wrote: post #61

david927 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of these are hacks. Interesting and useful, but hacks. None of these will be around in ten years. It's not the kind of future-inspiring innovation the author was referring to. Web applications don't seem trivial -- they are trivial. Scaling them means being creative, but don't confuse that with true innovation.

I say this without irony: I think that Facebook changes everything. If Facebook is not around in 10 years, then at least one social networking site will be. People want to be able to easily communicate online with the people they know in a global way. Facebook is becoming the global human database.

I agree. Don't forget linkedin. I only signed up for Facebook two years, to linkedin and twitter a few weeks ago. They are all mind blogging.

Re: America Lacks Meaningful Innovation

#96

Post by FrojoS » Sat, May 14, 2011, 1:59 PM UTC

beza1e1 wrote: post #86

thorwed123 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're ideal man is a university professor, he gets funding from NSF and NIH, and if you do work your ass off, Yes you do get significant share of the credit. Go to a CS PhD program if you really want to innovate, forget all the crap that is spread on HN if you do get into top 5 or top 10 school, you will have equal amount of resources and at University even though they do have their own interests, they still want to…

What a PhD does is "invention". The term "innovation" refers to bringing already invented things to the market.

So, if that "perfect man", the university advisor ask for so much invention that there is no time for innovation you are warmly welcomed to life in the ivory tower.

The best "man" is your free will. Its not the "perfect man" but the best we have.

Re: America Lacks Meaningful Innovation

#97

Post by FrojoS » Sat, May 14, 2011, 2:00 PM UTC

BenSS wrote: post #67

shadowsun7 wrote: post #22

I don't get this meme. Innovation can happen anywhere - and in fact it often does regardless of how seemingly 'useless' the application is. Livejournal is 'boring', but out of it we got Memcached; Facebook is a 'PHP doodad' (actual news article called it that, I kid you not!); out of it we got HipHop and Cassandra and Thrift. Friendfeed is a 'frivolous social app', and out of it we got Tornado. “The best minds of my…

When I think 'innovation' I'm generally not even thinking about web applications - but you've got some great examples! I think of more physical projects like RepRap (reprap.org) OpenFarmTech and SpaceX that are really pushing things in a new way. I'm sure there's plenty more if people look for them outside the software space.

+++

Re: America Lacks Meaningful Innovation

#98

Post by FrojoS » Sat, May 14, 2011, 2:01 PM UTC

william42 wrote: post #65

thorwed123 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hadoop rather mapreduce came from Google which is a great innovation. Cassandra came from Dynamo; And Dynamo is from Amazons R and D efforts. Btw Amazon is an innovation as it leads to large amount of savings in energy. Thrift,Tornado,HipHop -> not innovations useful programming tools but not gonna change anything. Rarely any innovations have come out of Web Applications. In fact the best innovation in data mining [T…

Are you seriously saying that Google and Amazon aren't web application companies?

Sure! The Kindle for instance is one of the greatest pieces of hardware I ever owned.

Re: America Lacks Meaningful Innovation

#99

Post by nazgulnarsil » Sat, May 14, 2011, 2:03 PM UTC

iamelgringo wrote: post #81

Poppycock. Health care's problems in the United States are not technical. Health Care's problems are regulatory, and systemic. (My day job is in health care for the last 20 years in 35 hospitals in 5 states.) Health care's problems in poor countries are primarily due to a lack of hygine and clean water. Most of the rest of their problems can be helped with decent tropical disease vaccine research. That’s not an inter…

the elephant in the room for healthcare is and always has been that the majority of healthcare is bullshit. or, in more technical terms, has no effect on health outcomes.

Re: America Lacks Meaningful Innovation

#100

Post by FrojoS » Sat, May 14, 2011, 2:05 PM UTC

thorwed123 wrote: post #31

jshen wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

true, but why is working for the man perceived as a bad thing? Could it be "the man's" fault? I happen to work for the man and here are some issues. I can't release code as open source, I get paid the same regardless of whether I work my ass off or just do enough to be ahead of the curve, I have virtually no say in our products because I'm just an engineer (we have product people for product design), I have to get an…

You're ideal man is a university professor, he gets funding from NSF and NIH, and if you do work your ass off, Yes you do get significant share of the credit. Go to a CS PhD program if you really want to innovate, forget all the crap that is spread on HN if you do get into top 5 or top 10 school, you will have equal amount of resources and at University even though they do have their own interests, they still want to…

I really love the idea of getting a Phd form one of those schools. And its true, people like Paul Graham did it and it seems like it served them well.

However, there are just as many counter examples. Elon Musk left Stanford's grad school after one day!