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EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

bbc.com

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Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#91

Post by 908B64B197 »

baxtr wrote: post #75

Ok, I will probably get downvoted for this. But I will still speak my mind: I am an EU citizen and I don’t think that’s the right approach because it’s distracting from what really happened: We missed the big Internet bus because we were so much focused on keeping things the way they were. Now we try to regulate us out. It makes me unbelievably sad. And it continues. The car was invented here but it takes an Australi…

Just think of all the unionized government jobs all this compliance work will create!

I can already see politicians congratulating one another for creating all these jobs!

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#92

Post by 6510 »

eznzt wrote: post #56
FleaFlicker99 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> must prioritise complaints raised by "trusted flaggers" That's the real concern here. Speech must be handled very carefully, but now we're elevating some specific people to be 'more equal' than others? Who are these people, and why do they get more say? I can see that opening a can of worms. I don't live in the EU, but just like that well intentioned but shortsighted cookie law, the rest of us will have to deal wit…

Trusted flaggers sounds to me like crazy people who spend all day reporting content because they are obsessed or have absolutely nothing to do. Having a system like this in place would lead to bad outcomes.

They are employees.

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#93

Post by avianlyric »

an_opabinia wrote: post #76
avianlyric wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I sometimes wonder had Apple not been such an arse with its App Store and monopolistic rules. Would these regulations ever come up. Nah these regulations were always coming. Everyone always likes to pick on Apple and the App Store, but quite frankly in the EU (where iPhones market share is only 24% compared to 49% in the US) Apple is small fries compared to companies like Facebook which basically owns 100% of socia…

"Small fries" and 24%... Anyway you're right but it's like, how would any of this concretely improve competition? In my experience, the problem is that giant companies steal your stuff, whether it's your code or your users, and that even when you want to enforce something like that, they can afford better lawyers than you. Like nobody here is working on social networks, cellphones or web browsers. I bet you interact…

> "Small fries" and 24%...

Everythings relative. You've got to start somewhere.

> Anyway you're right but it's like, how would any of this concretely improve competition?

I don't think this is just about competition. There has to be a recognition that social networks etc are natural monopolies, it's very hard to have competition there. Regardless of HNs utopian view of open protocols and distributed and federated social networks, the reality is that it's just not gonna happen.

So a I feel a big part of these laws isn't about creating competition, it's about making sure that mega-corporations like Facebook can't amase more power than democratically elected governments. These law make it clear that if you get to big, the EU will step in and make sure you're operating in line with their ideals, not the other way around.

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#94

Post by jsmith45 »

avianlyric wrote: post #49
throwaway894345 wrote: post #7

> The operators of online platforms - such as social media apps and video-sharing sites of any size - must prioritise complaints raised by "trusted flaggers", who have a track record of highlighting valid problems. Who determines which problems are valid? Unless I overlooked something, this article seems really vague. > Likewise, all online stores must be able to trace traders selling goods via their platforms, in ca…

> Who determines which problems are valid? Unless I overlooked something, this article seems really vague. We're still early doors on this, but presumably the legislation when it's written will have more details. But based on how most other regulation in the EU is handled, and thinking of how these questions are handled in the banking industry, I assume the company gets to decide. But the company will be expect to de…

The Current proposed legislation for the part you are discussing can be found at https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/files/proposal_for_a_re...

The actual legislation text (i.e. skipping the recitals) starts on page 43. "problems" here consists of reported illegal content, whether copyright violation or child porn. The legislation is basically an enhanced EU version of DCMA's safe harbor system, but with a focus on all illegal content, not just copyright infringement, and with more ability of the company to reject clearly invalid notices.

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#95

Post by buisi »

> The focus of the Digital Services Act is to create a single set of rules for the EU to keep users safe online, protect their freedom of expression and help both them and local authorities hold tech companies to account.

You can either have freedom of expression or safety online. You can't have both. And the second might be an impossible goal regardless.

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#96

Post by nickff »

mnl wrote: post #89
nickff wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of my family have ever resided in the EU either. I think I understand the argument you're trying to make, but it relies on some rather tortured logic.

I fail to understand how your particular case works. Not having a horse in the race but just a piece of paper you don't care about doesn't help you to make a point, which is what exactly?

I was replying to a comment that said: "The EU is its citizens. So in a sense the EU did create its citizens." I tried to show that I was a counter-example.

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#97

Post by buisi »

It's weird how politicians never talk about regulating Visa and Mastercard. They too can pick and choose who they do business with (freedom of expression). There are a lot of middle-men with a lot of power who get ignored in favor of chasing the most popular target of the day.

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#98

Post by eznzt »

jsmith45 wrote: post #86
eznzt wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trusted flaggers sounds to me like crazy people who spend all day reporting content because they are obsessed or have absolutely nothing to do. Having a system like this in place would lead to bad outcomes.

No these are organizations that an EU government has granted special status to: "The status of trusted flaggers under this Regulation shall be awarded, upon application by any entities, by the Digital Services Coordinator of the Member State in which the applicant is established where the applicant has demonstrated to meet all of the following conditions: (a) it has particular expertise and competence for the purpose…

Oooof, I imagine an endless list of left-wing NGOs.

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#99

Post by mrtksn »

baxtr wrote: post #75

Ok, I will probably get downvoted for this. But I will still speak my mind: I am an EU citizen and I don’t think that’s the right approach because it’s distracting from what really happened: We missed the big Internet bus because we were so much focused on keeping things the way they were. Now we try to regulate us out. It makes me unbelievably sad. And it continues. The car was invented here but it takes an Australi…

Europe didn’t miss the internet bus because of regulations, there were no regulations until the dust settled.

The thing is, there’s no US style capital in EU. The American capitalist bankrolled all the internet when there was no clear path to make money from it.

I remember when YouTube was burning billions per year, Facebook being labeled as “would never be profitable”.

Is there the kind of money in Europe that would take these risks?

There was no way for the internet to be EU thing because when it was fresh god knows how many billions had to be spent to have it operate and cross fingers to be able to recoup that investment. Simply, there is no that kind of money in Europe.

If you made the YouTube in Europe you would go bankrupt because you wouldn’t be able to pay the server bills.

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#100

Post by avianlyric »

buisi wrote: post #95

> The focus of the Digital Services Act is to create a single set of rules for the EU to keep users safe online, protect their freedom of expression and help both them and local authorities hold tech companies to account. You can either have freedom of expression or safety online. You can't have both. And the second might be an impossible goal regardless.

The world isn't so black and white. Even in the US, the home of free speech, you can't post child pornogaphy online. You could easily put forward the argument then that freedom of expression doesn't exist in the US.

Freedom of expression has never really meant you're completely free to say and anything (at least no in a civilized world). There are always going to be gray areas, but equally there are areas where expression should obviously be protected.

An example would be, if Facebook decided to eradicate all homosexual content. Clearly the EU stepping in and saying you can't discriminate against gay speech is protecting the gay communities freedom of expression.

Equally the EU stepping in and saying the Facebook isn't doing enough to protect victims of revenge porn is providing safety online. And is a reasonable balance between the rights of free expression from the poster vs the victim.

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