Cory Doctorow posted an excellent thread yesterday on the dysfunction inherent in automated IP-related moderation: https://twitter.com/doctorow/status/1337605157777862656
I wish he would start blogging, Twitter seems such a waste on him
Twitch suspends DragonForce guitarist Herman Li for playing his own music
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Re: Twitch suspends DragonForce guitarist Herman Li for playing his own music
#92This is old news and it was wrong. This happend at the height of a new wave of DMCA claims, so people simply assumed this had to be the reason. But it turned out later he showed some nudity, for which he got the usual 3 day-ban. Also, DMCA claims are not automatically leading to bans. It must have a certain level of harm ir repeated behaviour. And live-DMCA-checks are not active yet it seems, so usually the vod or cl…
> But it turned out later he showed some nudity. Wait, the guy from dragonforce exposed his penis live on stream?
I'm struggling to find any direct clips, but many are suggesting it was due to a fan showing their ass while he was streaming with Sabaton.
Re: Twitch suspends DragonForce guitarist Herman Li for playing his own music
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
The ToS makes no guarantee it'll be there to make your livelihood on tomorrow because you are today. Tomorrow it could say "no music, we don't like that noise" and you'd be shit outta luck because video hosting isn't a public service. Not to mention this doesn't solve anything, who arbitrates the absolute mountain of disputes that come out of this which is just the same thing moved up a level? Especially when someone…
i love that we are running out of jobs in hundreds of fields (especially adjusted to population growth) but the idea of creating jobs to enforce anything against billion dollar monopolies is just crazy talk. 'WHO?! HOW?!' bleated the corporate apologists from safely inside their own privileges.
The idea of whether or not a job is efficient to exist is independent of this. There are other ways to distribute money than creating jobs with output we don't need. I.e. maybe this is something we decide is a useful public service and we do create some public department to arbitrate this - great, we created the work because we said the work was worthwhile. My guess is most don't consider a place to host your videos/livestreams a public service though and trying to regulate the private companies in a way they'd function like a public service instead would both be unpopular and extraordinarily inefficient/complicated.
The comment at the end of your comment is probably what triggered the negative response here at HN for what it's worth.
Re: Twitch suspends DragonForce guitarist Herman Li for playing his own music
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
Music copyright is complicated and there are certain rights that attach to each performance vs. the music. If I sit down and play Bach that recording cannot be copied without my permission but you can sit down and record your own performance of Bach.
But if you wrote something today and recorded I would need a license to print your words. A license to use your exact song if longer than 7-15 seconds. A license to perform a cover if it sounds the same.
And you'll also need a seperate synchronization license to play the song with any visuals. Music rights are ridiculously convoluted.
Re: Twitch suspends DragonForce guitarist Herman Li for playing his own music
#95I'm naturally concerned about this because my brother in law has a regular, ongoing streaming music show/channel on Twitch with live and pre-recorded bands (most of them local to the SF bay area). He's putting a lot of effort into it: professional-level sound engineering and lighting (his day job is a recording engineer/producer and, pre-covid, stage lighting engineer), multiple camera shoots with dollys and booms an…
I can't speak for why Herman Li, or any other musician, would be banned for DMCA. But, its my understanding that Twitch pays for a live performance license from the major music publishers to enable musicians to stream on their platform [1]. Of course, this didn't work for Herman Li, but I think it at least speaks to their long-term goals for the platform.
Additionally, while they say to never play recorded music on stream, unless from a source where the copyrights are taken care of, their specific recommendations even in this "clarification" post are very opaque. Never play recorded music on stream, unless you own all the rights, but you probably don't, if you're not sure turn off your VODs. None of that is consistent with some overarching idea of why people get DMCA'd; would I get DMCA'd for playing recorded music live, but not having VODs? I would guess even Twitch doesn't know; its outside of their control.
In short, music on Twitch is REALLY risky, primarily because their rights enforcement is so immature. Its akin to them wildly shooting in the air with a machine gun. YouTube's Content ID is a bit more mature and predictable, so diversifying there may be a good idea.
[1] https://blog.twitch.tv/en/2020/11/11/music-related-copyright...
Re: Twitch suspends DragonForce guitarist Herman Li for playing his own music
#96I really don’t see how this is news. Automated system that matches song samples and can’t possibly know if a steamer went and licensed the copyrighted music on their stream trips on hearing copyrighted music. The banhammer falls automatically because there are so few cases (like this one) of legitimate usage requiring the content to be restored. Like if anyone on HN was tasked to design a system to protect your compa…
Then it’s not a system that works and shouldn’t be in place. You can’t just say, that’ll do, it’s too hard or expensive to do this properly, so let’s not. Amazon is one of the wealthiest companies in the world and could easily manually moderate channels before auto-banning them. As consumers we don’t have to accept these excuses for substandard services.
I don’t get this. The entire point of these systems is to detect and stop copyright violations because they open up platforms to lawsuits. It’s not enough to just respond to DMCA takedowns after the lawsuit between Viacom and YouTube because (I think pretty reasonably personally) these platforms previously enabled copyright violations at a scale that literally could not be policed by copyright holders and so ContentID and the like was the compromise.
Re: Twitch suspends DragonForce guitarist Herman Li for playing his own music
#97This is old news and it was wrong. This happend at the height of a new wave of DMCA claims, so people simply assumed this had to be the reason. But it turned out later he showed some nudity, for which he got the usual 3 day-ban. Also, DMCA claims are not automatically leading to bans. It must have a certain level of harm ir repeated behaviour. And live-DMCA-checks are not active yet it seems, so usually the vod or cl…
It seems like you overall support the system of overbearing rights holder automatically punishing and shutting down normal user behaviour, like taking a guitar and playing a song for others (i.e. the fairest of uses imaginable). What amazing power over human culture we have given to the corporations.
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Re: Twitch suspends DragonForce guitarist Herman Li for playing his own music
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
Music copyright is complicated and there are certain rights that attach to each performance vs. the music. If I sit down and play Bach that recording cannot be copied without my permission but you can sit down and record your own performance of Bach.
But can you sit down and record your own performance of Dragonforce?
Yes, compulsory licencing and royalty sharing applies. Also, if the recording is made from a performance in a venue, the owner must obtain a blanket licence from the music rights organisation.
The above is true for a couple of jurisdictions.
Re: Twitch suspends DragonForce guitarist Herman Li for playing his own music
#99Cory Doctorow posted an excellent thread yesterday on the dysfunction inherent in automated IP-related moderation: https://twitter.com/doctorow/status/1337605157777862656
I wish he would start blogging, Twitter seems such a waste on him
Re: Twitch suspends DragonForce guitarist Herman Li for playing his own music
#100When will platforms start to be charged for their mistakes? Pretty sure if they had to make financial compensations for their mistakes, they would start using humans more often to support this crap automated system. You would start to see more people being able to reach human support, getting human replies, etc. Would be pretty easy - for each day without reply, fine X. For X day of suspension, fine Y. And so on. If…
You make them pay by abandoning them as a customer. Stop streaming. Stop watching. Fining businesses who make mistakes is a dangerous path. That means anyone new to the industry who tosses up their first project is open to getting fined if they make a mistake. It also means there is either some organization in charge of being the watchdog for the industry with power to just apply fines to companies as they see fit...…
Im with you (in spirit). But we know at this point how network effects function and thats just not a practical solution. Leaving facebook, youtube, etc.. is similar to leaving your country and moving to a remote island in the middle of the ocean.
The solution is (partly) already here, its called breaking up monopolies which are illegal (and it would be wise to break up oligopolies). For instance YouTube has no real competition. 2000 million users vs what? Vimeos 1.5 million? Tech monopolies/oligopolies will always make the case that there is a rich marketplace of competitors by pointing out small fringe platforms that cant gain real traction but they know better internally and the stats confirm. Dont expect anything to change as they keep greasing your representatives. They spent record money on democrat elections this year and they expect their back to be scratched with lenient H1B visa programs to lower labor costs and lenient marketplace enforcement.