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German court forces mail provider Tutanota to insert a backdoor

heise.de

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Re: German court forces mail provider Tutanota to insert a backdoor

#91

Post by giancarlostoro »

upofadown wrote: post #50
giancarlostoro wrote: post #2

Encryption is the only thing that forces law enforcement to use warrants, without it it's just a wild wild west of privacy abuse. I do hope we see more services crop up, and new methods for people to encrypt email outside of specific services, maybe better plugins for Thunderbird or something, hell I'd easily pay for such a plugin if someone else can communicate back and forth with me through it and it is encrypted.…

I doubt that Thunderbird would want to go back to a plugin for PGP. They just moved that support into the program with S/MIME.

It's not necessary for the Thunderbird team to do it, there are paid plugins for Thunderbird. I'd happily pay for a decent plugin if it is developed properly.

Re: German court forces mail provider Tutanota to insert a backdoor

#92

Post by giancarlostoro »

McDyver wrote: post #74
girvo wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason that breaks down is that a backdoor to achieve this isn’t for that one case, it’s for everyone on the service (or easily made to be). It’s like getting permission to break every lock from a particular manufacturer, rather than permission to enter one particular home. I know in this particular case they’ve said it’s for a singular mailbox. I’m curious how they achieve it.

This is the same as the TSA lock in newly made luggage. In order for Americans to have their luggage inspected, the Europeans have to have a backdoor into their luggage. Fortunately in Europe you can add a layer of security on top of that by adding new locks.

I mean when you think about it in the grand scheme of things luggage isn't secure anyway, you can just cut through the fabric and other materials if you're so inclined to steal someones belongings from their luggage.

Re: German court forces mail provider Tutanota to insert a backdoor

#93

Post by McDyver »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #92
McDyver wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the same as the TSA lock in newly made luggage. In order for Americans to have their luggage inspected, the Europeans have to have a backdoor into their luggage. Fortunately in Europe you can add a layer of security on top of that by adding new locks.

I mean when you think about it in the grand scheme of things luggage isn't secure anyway, you can just cut through the fabric and other materials if you're so inclined to steal someones belongings from their luggage.

That's true, but at least you'd have some evidence of tampering. If it's your data that is breached or your privacy invaded, you have no idea.

Re: German court forces mail provider Tutanota to insert a backdoor

#94

Post by gruez »

betaby wrote: post #64
gruez wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Realistically speaking, is there jurisdiction where this isn't a threat? Most governments allow for wiretaps (basically what this "backdoor" is) when there's a warrant, so I'm not sure what the alternative is. Not even self-hosting works because they can seize your server/ip/domain name and install a backdoor there.

Unless if your server has full drive encryption

That does nothing for mail delivered after the warrant has been issued, which is what's being discussed in this post.

Re: German court forces mail provider Tutanota to insert a backdoor

#95

Post by therealEleix »

leipert wrote: post #38
arthurcolle wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a lawyer and I am just speculating but in the US I believe it would likely result in the court compelling the maintainer of the libraries in question to comply with the original order, or issue new orders to compel the parties in question given the new information.

With most licenses couldn’t you use a fork?

Forks are generally required to maintain the original licensing of the originating source. That would be like taking part of the Windows source code and "forking" it with the only change being the licensing. Just because you forked it and changed the license doesn't make it true.

Re: German court forces mail provider Tutanota to insert a backdoor

#96

Post by mikecoles »

542354234235 wrote: post #87
matheusmoreira wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We generally accept that warrants are a reasonable solution "We" accept nothing. The state can't execute warrants to get at what's inside people's minds. Computers are extensions of people's minds and I expect them to be equally inviolable. Also, even if it does have lawful access to the system, the state is not entitled to finding usable evidence. > it is open about the fact that court authorisation is required to…

> Computers are extensions of people's minds and I expect them to be equally inviolable. This is not a statement of fact and is generally a minority opinion.

Go home, Twitter.

Re: German court forces mail provider Tutanota to insert a backdoor

#97

Post by hxtk »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #92
McDyver wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the same as the TSA lock in newly made luggage. In order for Americans to have their luggage inspected, the Europeans have to have a backdoor into their luggage. Fortunately in Europe you can add a layer of security on top of that by adding new locks.

I mean when you think about it in the grand scheme of things luggage isn't secure anyway, you can just cut through the fabric and other materials if you're so inclined to steal someones belongings from their luggage.

You can also just push a pen through the zipper to open it without leaving any evidence. Simply run both locked-together sliders back over the zipper to close it.

Re: German court forces mail provider Tutanota to insert a backdoor

#98

Post by arthurcolle »

therealEleix wrote: post #95
leipert wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With most licenses couldn’t you use a fork?

Forks are generally required to maintain the original licensing of the originating source. That would be like taking part of the Windows source code and "forking" it with the only change being the licensing. Just because you forked it and changed the license doesn't make it true.

^ this

Also: what would forking have to do with anything? If youre compelled to put a backdoor in code to be able to intercept messages from a particular person, a better argument would be to just say "lol idk how 2 do codez" as opposed to "lol im gonna fork, fuck off"

Re: German court forces mail provider Tutanota to insert a backdoor

#99

Post by matheusmoreira »

throwaway2245 wrote: post #88
matheusmoreira wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We generally accept that warrants are a reasonable solution "We" accept nothing. The state can't execute warrants to get at what's inside people's minds. Computers are extensions of people's minds and I expect them to be equally inviolable. Also, even if it does have lawful access to the system, the state is not entitled to finding usable evidence. > it is open about the fact that court authorisation is required to…

You misrepresented what I said by removing the conditional part of the sentence - that's a misquote. >There mere possibility of a court-mandated backdoor means the entire system is already compromised and it's impossible to trust it. So then you should trust literally no software or hardware.

> You misrepresented what I said by removing the conditional part of the sentence - that's a misquote.

That wasn't my intention. I just didn't want to reproduce the whole post in my reply.

> So then you should trust literally no software or hardware.

I give free software the benefit of the doubt. I don't trust hardware. It sucks that hardware costs billions to manufacture. Centralized resources are easily targeted by governments. Maybe someday we'll have 3D printing technology that makes it possible for hackers to create their own chips at home.

Re: German court forces mail provider Tutanota to insert a backdoor

#100

Post by matheusmoreira »

542354234235 wrote: post #87
matheusmoreira wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We generally accept that warrants are a reasonable solution "We" accept nothing. The state can't execute warrants to get at what's inside people's minds. Computers are extensions of people's minds and I expect them to be equally inviolable. Also, even if it does have lawful access to the system, the state is not entitled to finding usable evidence. > it is open about the fact that court authorisation is required to…

> Computers are extensions of people's minds and I expect them to be equally inviolable. This is not a statement of fact and is generally a minority opinion.

So my opinion doesn't matter just because I'm part of some minority?
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