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EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

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Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#91

Post by MaxBarraclough »

mamon wrote: post #58
matsemann wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even better: Sick days shouldn't be a pool at all. In Norway there's X amount of sick days one can use without any hassle (all paid), to use any more all you have to do is show a doctors note. If you have to use more than Y amount of days (chronic illness, a more serious thing or something), the government will temporarily take on the responsibility of paying the worker's wages. I don't think people should be punishe…

In Poland the number of sick days is unlimited but you need a form filled by an actual MD in order to claim it. Vacation days are separate pool.

Seems like roughly the right solution. Sick days should exist to protect people who are unfortunate enough to get sick. Bad luck shouldn't cost you your pay, your job, or your holiday days.

Sick days should not be a simple pool of days off that you get to treat as equivalent to holiday days. This approach has the effect of (further) rewarding people who are lucky with their health, and incentivises not taking sick days when you should.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#92

Post by Xylakant »

cyphar wrote: post #50
maxerickson wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other side of it, it's nice to get the time off even if you don't get sick. Companies will tend to argue that sick time is only for when you are sick.

Does the US not have guaranteed vacation days? Here in Australia all non-casual workers must be given 20 days off a year (which in my view is actually too little -- in Europe workers get even more guaranteed days off). EDIT: This doesn't count public holidays, we have 10 or so public holidays (depending on your state) in addition to your vacation days.

Germany is 20 days (on a 5 workdays week) as well. The law stipulates 24 days, so you see that number quoted a lot, but the law also assumes a 6 day work week.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#93

Post by WealthVsSurvive »

silvester23 wrote: post #70
mikem170 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do people pretend to be sick to use up their X days? Many people want to have as many days off as they can. If so, you could be in the same situation, call in saying your sick to use all your days then really get sick at the end of the year. If the answer is no, perhaps that is due to cultural differences. It's my impression that folks in Norway are more responsible in many regards compared to Americans.

We have roughly the same regulations in Germany, in my personal experience people do not take advantage by prentending to be sick in any meaningful quantity. I mean there surely are people out there pushing it to the limit but it's not a problem in general. As for your point about really getting sick by the end of the year, as long as you have a doctor's note saying you are sick, you can stay at home, no matter how l…

USA workers pretend to be sick in order to:

A) Take any time off at all because they do not receive sick or vacation time.

B) Take time off because they do not have enough sick or vacation days and require rest from illness or work, but do not have realistic time in which to do either.

This brings about the perception that US workers will "use extra days," when in reality they simply do not have enough to begin with.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#94

Post by cutitout »

I'm very happy to see that the German tax break is basically the opposite of what Deutsche Bank Research suggested, namely extra taxes for people who WFH, because they "contribute less public transport and the economy", and should "pay a tax for that privilege". They suggested the employer pay it, but still.

https://www.handelsblatt.com/finanzen/banken-versicherungen/...

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#95

Post by MereInterest »

leetcrew wrote: post #54
MereInterest wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Along the same lines on sick days, I think it should be forbidden for employers to merge vacation days and sick days into "PTO". Merging the pools gives an incentive for people to come to work while ill. For example, suppose somebody has 3 PTO days remaining for the year, and they are all earmarked for Christmas vacation with family. If that person catches the flu in early December, their options are (a) cancel Chris…

at a reasonable company, the person in your example would be allowed to accrue negative PTO to go on vacation with their family. there are pros and cons to merged time off. psychologically, it sucks to burn "vacation" to take time off to recover from an illness. on the flip side, there is no reason for my manager to suspect me of abusing sick leave or verify my illness (which sounds super draconian). if I'm not feeli…

In this particular trade-off, yes, you could go into negative PTO for a particular vacation. However, it is still trading a future vacation day away.

I don't think there should be any verification for minor illnesses. My company has an unlimited sick leave policy, and I've never needed to do more than send a quick "I'm not feeling well, should be back tomorrow." email. One of the other commenters mentioned Norway's system of having a doctor's note only after X sick days have been used, which seems reasonable.

Agreed that (x+y) PTO is individually preferable to (x vacation) + (y sick leave). That said, as thaeli mentioned, usually it isn't a summation. In moving from a standard of (10 vacation) + (10 sick leave) to a merged pool, the result was a standard of (15 PTO) rather than 20. That there isn't an individual push for the separation is also why it needs to be a regulation, rather than something left to the free market, because there is definitely a public health argument on it.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#96

Post by donatj »

Blahah wrote: post #90
donatj wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PTO is the more reasonable policy. I have weeks of sick days, it’s great.

It isn't a reasonable policy at all. If you are sick for weeks you have no vacation time. That's bad for everyone involved.

I'm pretty sure the people ITT are going to disagree with me, but vacation is a luxury, sick days are a necessity. If I missed weeks of work I wouldn't also take a vacation that year regardless.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#98

Post by cyphar »

Xylakant wrote: post #92
cyphar wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the US not have guaranteed vacation days? Here in Australia all non-casual workers must be given 20 days off a year (which in my view is actually too little -- in Europe workers get even more guaranteed days off). EDIT: This doesn't count public holidays, we have 10 or so public holidays (depending on your state) in addition to your vacation days.

Germany is 20 days (on a 5 workdays week) as well. The law stipulates 24 days, so you see that number quoted a lot, but the law also assumes a 6 day work week.

I was thinking of the likes of France, Finland, Sweden, and so on which get 5 weeks, but yeah it seems the EU only requires a minimum of 4 weeks paid leave.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#100

Post by Mauricebranagh »

aminozuur wrote: post #32

What about the employees who are happy to stay ready 'on-call', in a position where they are payed more then they've ever made? Could the employee make an agreement with his/her employer, or would such an agreement be deemed 'unlawful' under the new law?

I know that in one bit UK company being on call was seen as a perk as you got paid a retainer and TOIL at OT rates

Some Mainframe DBA's where on 4in4 and where called 2 3 times year.

I also heard of some one who worked two shifts for an extended period at PRESTEL

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