M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness • Hacker News Board

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#91

Post by neogodless » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 2:32 PM UTC

faitswulff wrote: post #14

ghaff wrote: post #12

I'm not sure I see most of the disagreement here. As Gruber says, Moorhead is mostly complaining about software incompatibilities. But that's part of the total package--especially with Apple which is about selling the total experience. Personally I'll probably switch sooner rather than later especially given that I don't run a lot of native apps on my laptop. But it seems pretty reasonable to critique a new architect…

I had a suspicion upon reading Moorhead's review that he was trying to use familiar enterprise Windows software on the M1 instead of trying to use native apps: > So far, I have experienced application crashes in Microsoft Edge, Outlook, WinZip and Logitech Camera Control. I got installation errors with Adobe Reader XI, Adobe Acrobat Reader DC, a Samsung SSD backup application, and Xbox 360 Controller for Mac. What Ma…

To be a "Mac user" you have to give up the software you prefer, and use the software Mac prefers you to use. And you don't get to be unhappy if the software you prefer doesn't run OK? I am so happy to not be a Mac user, even if I'm sad I won't be trying out the great M1 CPU any time soon.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#92

Post by arn » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 2:32 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #42

arn wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are using an ad block or other extensions, that is likely the cause. I can't find specific reference, but try turning those off. edit: https://twitter.com/hondanhon/status/1329132372034347009

A browser isn't viable to me without ad blocking and 1Password. Firefox has issues currently on M1, as well - uBlock Origin won't load, for example. Thankfully, that particular issue is fixable by disabling javascript.options.wasm and javascript.options.wasm_trustedprincipals in about:config as a temporary solution. I fully expect these to be fixed, but it's clear it's gonna be a few weeks/months before everything ru…

As others have said, I was simply offering a suggestion to help debug, not passing judgement on adblockers.

I have had Safari open for 23 hours on my M1 MBP, and it is using ~800mb of memory right now. Extensions are the most likely culprit.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#93

Post by madeofpalk » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 2:33 PM UTC

faitswulff wrote: post #14

ghaff wrote: post #12

I'm not sure I see most of the disagreement here. As Gruber says, Moorhead is mostly complaining about software incompatibilities. But that's part of the total package--especially with Apple which is about selling the total experience. Personally I'll probably switch sooner rather than later especially given that I don't run a lot of native apps on my laptop. But it seems pretty reasonable to critique a new architect…

I had a suspicion upon reading Moorhead's review that he was trying to use familiar enterprise Windows software on the M1 instead of trying to use native apps: > So far, I have experienced application crashes in Microsoft Edge, Outlook, WinZip and Logitech Camera Control. I got installation errors with Adobe Reader XI, Adobe Acrobat Reader DC, a Samsung SSD backup application, and Xbox 360 Controller for Mac. What Ma…

Wait, WinZip is available on a Mac?

I know its not the point, but... what's the point of using WinZip on a mac when the OS has built in unzipping?

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#94

Post by supermatt » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 2:34 PM UTC

JohnBooty wrote: post #52

haunter wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>WinZip https://www.winzip.com/mac/en/ >Xbox 360 Controller for Mac What's sketchy about that? Apple is pushing the "play any iOS game on the new Macs" hard. And a lot of them are supporting controllers natively on iPad and iPhone so obvious someone wants to try that out too.

I'm confused. Is that author running some "Xbox 360 Controller for Mac" application? I remember there used to be some special apps back in the day, to let you use a 360 controller on MacOS. I wonder if the author knows that you don't need those apps any more?

yep, that's exactly what he's doing, and its not compatible with Big Sur because its a kext - nothing to do with the M1

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#95

Post by superzamp » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 2:35 PM UTC

> It was a fundamental trade-off inherent to PC computing, and now we don’t have to make it

I wonder how many of the currently accepted trade-offs are actually false.

At low levels it's kind of easy to prove, like you can store either more or bigger packages in a truck but not both. But the higher you go, the farther from physics, the more difficult it becomes to know if you're making decisions on what is essentially a flaky trade-off.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#96

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 2:35 PM UTC

croes wrote: post #31

Fast and hot and slow and cool is still valid. The M1 is as fast or faster as other CPU but could surely run faster. But then it's getting hot.

[deleted]

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#97

Post by ghaff » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 2:36 PM UTC

aequitas wrote: post #70

hpaavola wrote: post #46

I don't care about any Apple products, but I really do hope that M1 will force all other manufacturers ship good ARM laptops. Or force Intel and AMD to pull a rabit out of their hat to match the performance/watt of ARM chips. I want long battery life, no fans and a lot of memory. Running Linux. If M1 is the catalyst to make it happen, then so be it.

Don't get your hopes up. My prediction is, that yes, there will be a slew of new ARM laptop's. And even though the technically run ARM chips, it will only be a marketing selling point for new. They might even cram Snapdragon's or other mobile device CPU's in there, just to be able to put a ARM sticker on a plastic frame with an folding LCD panel and keyboard. They will sell it as beter than Intel, because that is wha…

Ultimately, it's all about Windows. I know it's hard for many of us who basically hardly see anything other than Mac or Linux laptops to really grok, but something like 90% of the laptops out there run Windows (if you exclude Chromebooks which AFAIK are mostly used in education).

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#98

Post by neogodless » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 2:37 PM UTC

tambourine_man wrote: post #45

I submitted the same exact link 8 hours earlier. This HN behavior is very frustrating. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25285489

To me, this is a community of people that want to share interesting topics and information, and contribute to that sharing and discussion. The greatest prize of all this is how much accurate and useful information we all get out of this. I've become a veritable encyclopedia, a proficient and effective software engineer, a resource on many topics for friends and family, and continue to be an enthusiast of computing software and hardware advances.

There's no denying the part of our brain that gets a kick out of the internet points which reflect peer approval and respect. However, I will continue to hope to value the greater good that this community creates for all of us over the individual recognition that gives me a much shorter term buzz.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#99

Post by feelix » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 2:37 PM UTC

It turns out that the benchmarks for M1 vs latest generation Intel & AMD CPU's are indeed overblown, and it is an incremental improvement more than a great leap forward.

The source of the confusion has been the benchmarking software. To saturate one core on an Intel processor you need to run two threads, because that's the way they are designed. So the single thread benchmarks that have been used so far have been using 50% of the capacity of an Intel CPU core and comparing it with 100% of the capacity of an M1 CPU core.

This article breaks it down fully: https://wccftech.com/why-apple-m1-single-core-comparisons-ar...

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#100

Post by simias » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 2:37 PM UTC

I've never owned a Mac and don't intend to own one but I'm very happy with this M1 move, mainly for the reasons highlighted in the introduction to the article:

>M1 Macs embarrass all other PCs — all Intel-based Macs, including automobile-priced Mac Pros, and every single machine running Windows or Linux. Those machines are just standing around in their underwear now because the M1 stole all their pants.

I think it's a bit unfair to lump Linux in there since it's been running on ARM and other embedded, low-power devices basically forever, but it is true that few of us run our Linux desktop on an ARM board.

But I think the overarching point is true: now desktop and laptop makers can't just pretend that having a hot and/or slow, clunky, noisy x86-based architecture is just a fact of life. I hope and expect that it'll help create a new generation of ARM-based laptops and maybe even desktops that will run cool and smooth.

I want to believe.