Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients • Hacker News Board

Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#91

Post by GordonS » Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 1:45 PM UTC

Hendrikto wrote: post #50

GordonS wrote: post #36

Story time. I recall one afternoon my friend and I picked and took some mushrooms (they grow in abundance at a certain time of year where I live), when I was perhaps 15 years old. We didn't take a huge quantity, but enough for a mild, pleasant experience. That same evening I realised that I had to write an essay for school - it wasn't like me, but I'd completely forgotten about it, and now had a single evening to wri…

> He couldn't prove anything, so gave it a B and strongly warned me not to "pull a stunt like this ever again". You should have gotten your A+… This seems really arbitrary and unfair. The teacher could not prove anything, but gave you a worse grade based on what? His personal opinion of your abilities? Dick move.

At the time I thought so too, but I wasn't about to tell him it really was me, that my consciousness was expanded and I now had a deeper understanding of human language and the universe :P

Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#92

Post by GordonS » Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 1:46 PM UTC

mettamage wrote: post #45

GordonS wrote: post #36

Story time. I recall one afternoon my friend and I picked and took some mushrooms (they grow in abundance at a certain time of year where I live), when I was perhaps 15 years old. We didn't take a huge quantity, but enough for a mild, pleasant experience. That same evening I realised that I had to write an essay for school - it wasn't like me, but I'd completely forgotten about it, and now had a single evening to wri…

Haha, that's an awesome story. To write something so off the scale . Like, you were an A-student! And you wrote something that was so unbelievably good, your teacher didn't believe it. That is pure gold. So I have to ask. Do you still have that essay? And can I (email in profile), or we (HN), read it? I get it if you don't want to. Just asking if you're open to it :) I think your story isn't properly finished ;-)

Alas, I don't have a single thing from my school days, except exam certificates :(

Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#93

Post by GordonS » Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 1:48 PM UTC

jason0597 wrote: post #74

GordonS wrote: post #36

Story time. I recall one afternoon my friend and I picked and took some mushrooms (they grow in abundance at a certain time of year where I live), when I was perhaps 15 years old. We didn't take a huge quantity, but enough for a mild, pleasant experience. That same evening I realised that I had to write an essay for school - it wasn't like me, but I'd completely forgotten about it, and now had a single evening to wri…

Have you thought about trying to find that teacher today and explaining him what actually happened back then with the mushrooms and the essay? Would make for an incredible story

I hadn't thought about that! I can only recall the teacher's nickname (which wasn't exactly complimentary), and I'm not in contact with anyone from those days, so I guess it's a non-starter. Plus, during my school years we were all taught that if you did any drugs at all, you'd end up a disgraced heroin user that would end up on the streets and die, and all the teachers seemed to fully buy-in to this notion.

Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#94

Post by etripe » Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 1:48 PM UTC

rich_sasha wrote: post #6

I don't understand the controversy. We know full well the natural world is full of substances with significant impact on our bodies. Many such substances can even on average be harmful, but when used correctly, they are beneficial. Opioids come to mind first and foremost. It's not controversial to give e.g. serious accident victims a shot of morphine. Why are investigations into medicinal use of shrooms or marijuana…

I think a lot of the controversy dates back to the anti-war and civil rights movements. Psychedelics were outlawed to tackle the first, opioids to address the latter. Now there were "legitimate" charges to ring them up for instead of civil disobedience.

Result: fewer challenges to the status quo when fundamental change at near-revolutionary levels seemed a real risk for those in power. Turns out society's elite were a bunch of squares.

Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#95

Post by kortex » Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 1:48 PM UTC

heavenlyblue wrote: post #17

rich_sasha wrote: post #6

I don't understand the controversy. We know full well the natural world is full of substances with significant impact on our bodies. Many such substances can even on average be harmful, but when used correctly, they are beneficial. Opioids come to mind first and foremost. It's not controversial to give e.g. serious accident victims a shot of morphine. Why are investigations into medicinal use of shrooms or marijuana…

Playing the devils advocate, and I think this is a pretty strong point against shrooms: while opioids cause harm, their harm is incredibly mechanical (it’s just addiction) and can be managed well. Shrooms play with your brain. We barely know how that works and quite frankly a lot of the research into managing the depressive episodes with shrooms may just be that you become more stupid and therefore less prone to thin…

> quite frankly a lot of the research into managing the depressive episodes with shrooms may just be that you become more stupid and therefore less prone to thinking in the first place.

Source needed. All the research I've seen suggest that psychedelics, nay many serotonergics, boost BDNF and neurogenesis.

However, they may artificially weaken links to fear circuitry in the brain - this is usually a feature.

Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#96

Post by GordonS » Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 1:52 PM UTC

kakkan wrote: post #75

GordonS wrote: post #36

Story time. I recall one afternoon my friend and I picked and took some mushrooms (they grow in abundance at a certain time of year where I live), when I was perhaps 15 years old. We didn't take a huge quantity, but enough for a mild, pleasant experience. That same evening I realised that I had to write an essay for school - it wasn't like me, but I'd completely forgotten about it, and now had a single evening to wri…

Another aspect which is absolutely need to good is the company that you take the drugs in. Once, I took LSD with a couple of "friends" of mine, which turned out to be a sort of devil-worshiping ritual to indoctrinate me into their cult. Apparently all of them had went through this process where they played a niche genre of music called "darkpsy" which is absolutely horrendous to your ears. From my experience of the e…

Totally agree. The time it all went wrong for me, the whole thing was a bad idea from the start. Something terrible had just happened in my friend's family, and we weren't going into it responsibly, and/or to have a fun experience - we just wanted to get fucked up, and took waaaay too much. Right before things went bad, we had an argument, and I ended up alone for a long time.

For anyone that's going to use mushrooms, LSD or any other hallucigen, I'd strongly recommend having a trip-sitter. This is someone who stays with you, remaining sober throughout proceedings), and can help guide the trip, and get you back on track if they start going wrong. Oh, and of course I'd recommend considering your tolerance level, and only taking a sensible amount.

Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#97

Post by Loeffeldude » Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 1:59 PM UTC

washadjeffmad wrote: post #86

heavenlyblue wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Playing the devils advocate, and I think this is a pretty strong point against shrooms: while opioids cause harm, their harm is incredibly mechanical (it’s just addiction) and can be managed well. Shrooms play with your brain. We barely know how that works and quite frankly a lot of the research into managing the depressive episodes with shrooms may just be that you become more stupid and therefore less prone to thin…

Chronic pain does affect the brain, which we already know has long term physiological and neurodegenerative effects. However, we don't have any evidence that psilocybin causes any lasting harm, especially against cognition. Opiate harm is also not limited to addiction. Overdosing and liver toxicity from (abuse of) prescribed opiates is real and driven by their steep curve of tolerance. Opiate withdrawal for many can…

What about people with HPPD? There are definitely people who have long lasting effects of these drugs. Negative and positive. I have depersonalisation/derealization and anxeity disorder after a bad LSD experience. Would it have been triggered without it? Maybe. But what I do know is that shortly after that experience these problems began. I think this overly positive reporting is harmful. I too used to think that drugs aren't that bad and it's all just propaganda but drugs do mess with your mind and if you value your mental health you should stay away from anything harder than alcohol imo.

Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#98

Post by vidarh » Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 2:11 PM UTC

teataster wrote: post #63

vidarh wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decriminalisation keeps many of the worst aspects of the war on drugs in place. Aspects that are damaging and immoral in that they cause far more harm than they prevent. Even drugs like heroin should be fully legalised. Subject to prescription, maybe. But the harm from a clean, consistent heroin supply is vastly lower than the harm caused by the manufacture and smuggling alone, and decriminalisation of possession doe…

I see your point, and I think is valid. But I disagree. I think the harm of legalization is only slightly below the war on drugs. Legalization means another vector of government control in my life, most likely outsourced to big pharma. All the issues you are pointing can be solved by decriminalization are solved by individual responsibility and boils down to answering the question: Can you trust your source? If you c…

The evidence is strongly that you can't trust your source.

But lack of legalisation also leaves drug cartels and murderous supply lines, high prices and reason to carry out crime to finance those high prices intact.

Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#99

Post by tsukurimashou » Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 2:18 PM UTC

francescopnpn wrote: post #59

mettamage wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your dosage cannot be emphasized enough (!). First time I took it, half a dose, I felt like a 12 year old child. It was a lot of fun. Second time I took it, a full dose, I had a bad trip. But I was with my girlfriend, so it was never too bad. I also learned that I trust her completely emotionally. I relied on her a lot. Third time I took it with a very close friend (15+ years of knowing, inspired each other to study…

different people have different tolerances. clearly your sweet spot was "half a dose" dude.

I think people underestimate the value of bad trips. Sure it can be hell and very unpleasant / traumatizing. But for me it really helped me realize all the stress and anxiety that was just sitting there for the past ~20 years. It had been there for so long that it was my "normal" and couldn't even see it.

Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#100

Post by kortex » Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 2:28 PM UTC

vidarh wrote: post #56

teataster wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe there is some sort of nonsequitur on the proposed argument. You can stop the war on drugs and keep the "drugs are evil" narrative. It's called decriminalization. Stop bothering people for possessing, producing or using drugs, do as you want with those trafficking, and keep them illegal. This could be done progressively without loss of face by government. Oh wait, that's what the article is about! Drugs, inc…

Decriminalisation keeps many of the worst aspects of the war on drugs in place. Aspects that are damaging and immoral in that they cause far more harm than they prevent. Even drugs like heroin should be fully legalised. Subject to prescription, maybe. But the harm from a clean, consistent heroin supply is vastly lower than the harm caused by the manufacture and smuggling alone, and decriminalisation of possession doe…

As someone who's studied the topic quite heavily, here's my issue with no-holds-barred legalization (I consider "legal" to mean "can manufacture and distribute" in this regard, like tobacco). Drugs that couple very tightly to the VTA (brain's behavior-reward circuit) actually can lead to lasting changes after few or single exposures. This is amplified by rapid absorption routes - injection, insufflation and inhalation. The main players here are heroin (DEA sched 1), meth (2), cocaine (2), GHB/Xyrem (3), some benzos (4), tobacco (legal), and analogs therein. It's hard to have a casual habit with these drugs, as they manipulate the brain's behavioral calculus itself.

Note that the DEA schedules are all over the board. The current schedule system has barely any correlation with harm (see work by David Nutt). But we are also in a weird place where access to two of the most destructive drugs in real measurable effects - alcohol and tobacco - are legal.

At bare minimum we need to overhaul the schedule system, legalize drugs with low/moderate addiction potential (weed, psychedelics, ketamine, phenethylamines, the Shulginoids), and legalize everything in personal possession quantities, and for scientific/medical research.

High-addiction drugs should probably be medically gated in some way.