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Linus Torvalds on the new MacBook Air

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Re: Linus Torvalds on the new MacBook Air

#91
post #59

Does there exist soc any that would be suitable for a powerful arm laptop that can run Linux? How does for example the nvidia xavier soc stack up against the apple m1?

Nvidia Orin (coming next year) might be usable for a larger laptop but no one will have the courage to build it.

Re: Linus Torvalds on the new MacBook Air

#92
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am referring to the ability for consumers who purchase a hardware product with these Corporation's operating system installed to be able to dual boot, or replace the OS with a Linux distribution. I believe this is both in line with free-market enterprise as well as core values such as individual liberty and property ownership. Anti-competitive and predatory practices should not be justified by people such as yourse…

We had this with Netbooks - remember those? You could choose between a barely running Windows XP or a well running Linux back then. People mostly bought the Windows version because that's what they knew and where the illegal copy of software X from their neighbour ran. A similar thing happened with the city of Munich trying to convert their systems to Linux. The workers complained that OpenOffice/LibreOffice didn't w…

I think that is changing, though. G-Suite and the online versions of Office (Office365, I think?) are gaining a lot of traction in the business world. Live collaboration with other people is a huge benefit, and being a webapp saves the IT department many headaches.

Although that's less "Linux as a viable OS" and more "Google Chrome as a viable OS".

Re: Linus Torvalds on the new MacBook Air

#93

Honestly, I don't think anyone is holding their breath for the day that corporations like Apple and Microsoft give the world the Linux that they deserve. Imagine if these power brokers didn't exist and a whole generation of children grew up on Linux rather than Mac/PC. Huge opportunity cost for society in my opinion.

I did grow up on Linux. My dad put OpenSUSE on the family computer. I learned to break it and re-image the machine. I learned to work with a command-line interface. There was no power broker that stood in the way. But then, that's one man's experience, and most computers still ship with Windows, so take it for what it is.

Re: Linus Torvalds on the new MacBook Air

#94
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Honestly, I don't think anyone is holding their breath for the day that corporations like Apple and Microsoft give the world the Linux that they deserve. I don’t understand this comment. What are you expecting Apple, Microsoft to do? They’re not charities, they make competing OS’s for profit. Why would anyone be waiting for them to bring Linux?

I am referring to the ability for consumers who purchase a hardware product with these Corporation's operating system installed to be able to dual boot, or replace the OS with a Linux distribution. I believe this is both in line with free-market enterprise as well as core values such as individual liberty and property ownership. Anti-competitive and predatory practices should not be justified by people such as yourse…

Lenovo and Dell both sell laptops with Linux installed. Dell ships XPS "developer edition" machines with Ubuntu and Lenovo offers Fedora on a bunch of machines.

However, I don't think selling such machines to the general public will happen soon, because there's not much of a market for it. Most users hate it when the interface of a single application changes; switching operating systems is probably a non-starter.

Re: Linus Torvalds on the new MacBook Air

#95
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am referring to the ability for consumers who purchase a hardware product with these Corporation's operating system installed to be able to dual boot, or replace the OS with a Linux distribution. I believe this is both in line with free-market enterprise as well as core values such as individual liberty and property ownership. Anti-competitive and predatory practices should not be justified by people such as yourse…

You can run and boot Linux on both macs[0] and pc's[1] and have been able to do so continuously for more than a decade. [0] https://www.google.com/search?q=boot+mac+into+linux [1] https://www.google.com/search?q=boot+pc+into+linux

Not on these new ARM Macs

Re: Linus Torvalds on the new MacBook Air

#96

Honestly, I don't think anyone is holding their breath for the day that corporations like Apple and Microsoft give the world the Linux that they deserve. Imagine if these power brokers didn't exist and a whole generation of children grew up on Linux rather than Mac/PC. Huge opportunity cost for society in my opinion.

My daughters school gives her a chrome book so she is growing up using Linux. Her fire tablet also uses linux.

That's not Linux Linux, that's Linux powered derivatives.

It's a bit like saying that people who use Android phones use Linux. Sure, the kernel may be Linux, but they don't use the desktop Linux that everyone refers to when they use the word "Linux" (bar a few exceptions)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU/Linux_naming_controversy

Re: Linus Torvalds on the new MacBook Air

#97
post #26
post #6

> I've been waiting for an ARM laptop that can run Linux for a long time. I wonder if the Pinebook Pro would suit some Linux laptop use cases? Its an ARM laptop for $200, no fan, that ships with Manjaro Linux installed.

The issue is that you really start feel the performance limitations of a cheap ARM SoC. Especially if you do a bunch of C compiling like Torvalds would.

One could just cross-compile remotely?

Re: Linus Torvalds on the new MacBook Air

#99
post #68
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was discussing this with someone yesterday. A materials engineering PhD candidate, who took an engineering coding class during undergrad, but found everything so complicated that she never looked back and actually learned how to write a script. She's not alone, and it's frustrating to see the number of otherwise highly-educated people who seem handicapped in certain tasks because corporate vendors like Microsoft, M…

I never understood why Microsoft never pushed VBScript harder, and didn’t include a basic IDE for it. After all every copy of Windows for decades has come with it and it’s very powerful. They do seem to be rectifying that with PowerShell though. I think it’s unfair hitting the Mac on this front though. Automator is an incredibly easy to use desktop automation tool, and of course you’ve got Bash, Ruby and Python right…

For many of the smaller, just-make-it-easier tasks, I definitely agree with you regarding the greater accessibility on Mac. It's certainly not in exactly the same bucket as Windows. I think the thing I had in my head was the lack of deeper accessibility in Apple products. On Linux, there's a really neat transition that can happen, where (imho, often by accident) you switch from just being a user of your computing environment to being its owner, which I think is a gateway to higher levels of technical engagement. Apple's approach seems sort of like a high-pass filter; you can only go so far in that environment before you start running into barriers. For the general population, I agree that it's probably not a high priority, but I think the trade-off in terms of gateway potential is worth acknowledging.
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