Live data from Hacker News

Dusk is a 90s style shooter from the mind of a teenager (2016)

killscreen.com

91–100 of 114 posts

Re: Dusk is a 90s style shooter from the mind of a teenager (2016)

#91
post #74
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's cargo culting, as much as it's a generation of gamers who were raised with the expectation of a "progression system". I remember back when EA was ridiculed for their statement about "giving a players a sense of pride and accomplishment" regarding requiring a long grind (or big payment) to unlock the most powerful characters in a Star Wars game. I've seen people beg developers to give them something…

>I think developers know how to make fun games, but I don't think most players want fun games because they've been conditioned to want addiction simulators with meaningless rewards. I have spent the last two or three years trying to find a fun android and/or console game (outside of some switch games), and I've never been able to put my finger on why the games in the app store, and many, many PC games are just not fu…

> Commander Keen and Leisure Suit Larry and Doom and Deathtrack and Hexen and The Lost Vikings and System Shock 2

Yes, and the very first Duke Nukem [1]. So much fun! I'm getting into game design this year, and will endeavour to make pay-once, short, super fun games. (I say short, albeit with replay value - I'd hate to string you along for 100+ hours with pointless side quests)

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4a3_wazRPA

Re: Dusk is a 90s style shooter from the mind of a teenager (2016)

#92

What I like about 90s shooters is how little fuss there is to get to the action. Doom, you launch it and can be killing things within 15 seconds. With modern shooters, it loading, loading, game selection, lobby, connecting, loading, cutscene, weapon selection, tutorial, realizing you need to grind to get better weapons, pay for better weapons, mission objectives, notified there's an update, enter your credentials, re…

I agree with this, which is why I have a nes classic plugged into the TV too. Everyone who uses it vs the xbone agrees its 100% a better experience. I don't have to log into an account to play, it doesn't take 10 mins to update a game, etc. Two people grab controllers and within a few seconds are shooting/fighting/whatever each other. Plus the variety is much larger.

I think a lot of the problem is the commoditization and merging of genre's along with the overwhelming dominance of a small number of game engines.

This means that a modern RPG pretty much plays the same as a strategy or shooter. Which makes everything feel like a remake of something you have already played. Particularly as the games don't really have differing artistic styles anymore either because that is more a function of how the game engine works than what texture selection or lighting effects are used.

Maybe the best way to describe it, is that modern games are "cold".

Re: Dusk is a 90s style shooter from the mind of a teenager (2016)

#93
post #74
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's cargo culting, as much as it's a generation of gamers who were raised with the expectation of a "progression system". I remember back when EA was ridiculed for their statement about "giving a players a sense of pride and accomplishment" regarding requiring a long grind (or big payment) to unlock the most powerful characters in a Star Wars game. I've seen people beg developers to give them something…

>I think developers know how to make fun games, but I don't think most players want fun games because they've been conditioned to want addiction simulators with meaningless rewards. I have spent the last two or three years trying to find a fun android and/or console game (outside of some switch games), and I've never been able to put my finger on why the games in the app store, and many, many PC games are just not fu…

I mean old games were designed to be addicting too, so that people would stand in the arcade and feed the machine quarters for hours. OTOH, those games were a lot faster paced/etc. I don't even think its possible to have the kind of super fast arcade level games on a touchscreen.

Which is maybe part of the problem. Old games had a joystick and two buttons. They were easy to learn, hard to master.

Re: Dusk is a 90s style shooter from the mind of a teenager (2016)

#94
post #17
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Until Halo came around Goldeneye and Turok would like to have a word, if you have a moment.

Which games imitate Goldeneye and Turok? I mean I guess you have a point that these games work, but the fact they've been ignored by game designers is telling something.

Goldeneye wasn't ignored, the thief designers have talked about the difficulty vs mission structure coming from straight from Goldeneye.

Edit: timesplitters, that was David doak and his goldeneye mates when they left rare and set up free radical. I think that franchise lost its way on the third one when they ditched the Goldeneye style controls.

Re: Dusk is a 90s style shooter from the mind of a teenager (2016)

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not sure if a modern child could be scared by it. I grew up on N64/Gamecube/XB360, and can confirm that Doom was not scary the first time I played it (about 10 years old).

It feels like a generational thing, too. My aunt and uncle showed me the 1932 production of "The Mummy," and it terrified them. They were born in the 40s, and so saw this movie in their teens. (and perhaps even later) I watched it recently, and can't even imagine being scared. I'd like to think that there is both an objective and subjective aspect to this. On the one hand, maybe people just can't appreciate the older…

I wonder how much of the difference is attributable to sensitivity (or lack thereof) to the art/medium/representation, and how much is due to the fact that the fears addressed by the work of art were more relatable to people at the time than they are to a modern audience.

My mom found "The Exorcist" truly frightening, so much so that she refused to re-watch it in adulthood. So my friend and I rented it one night looking forward to a good scare; instead, we mostly found ourselves laughing at how ridiculous it seemed. We must have been around 12 at the time, so probably already quite desensitized to horror movies in general, but I think it is also the case that the subject matter was just less frightening to us than it was to her. We were all raised Catholic, but she was of the stern-nuns-with-rulers generation whereas our elementary school in the 90's had been of the hippie-nuns-with-guitars variety. I don't think things like demons/the devil had ever felt like real objects of fear for us like they may have been for her (in such a deep way that their representation continued to creep her out long after she stopped believing in their literal existence).

Re: Dusk is a 90s style shooter from the mind of a teenager (2016)

#97
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doom scary creepy game? People flipped out when Doom 3 ended up being low light horror game and not a fast paced shooter. Heck the lore of the Doom is that the protagonist is the 'Doom of demonkind'. Its the game where you are not locked in room with demons but they are locked in room with you. > you're an unkillable demigod that's basically dunking on armies of demons That is the 100% the core idea of Doom lore. Tld…

>Doom scary creepy game? >People flipped out when Doom 3 ended up being low light horror game and not a fast paced shooter. A game can have a creepy aesthetic and even scare people without being a slow paced survival game where you walk around awkwardly pointing at things with a flashlight. The early games had creepy vibes at many different parts of the game. If you disagree to each his own. > you're an unkillable de…

Doom came out right when I left univeristy. Loved that game. I like the new Dooms too. I think they're fun. Way more "doom like" than anything else I've played since.

The "New Doom" music/sound producer gave a pretty good GDC one hour talk about the music came about. Some fun stories there ( the sound easter egg story was fun). Its more than about just the sound, its about process and change.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4FNBMZsqrY

Re: Dusk is a 90s style shooter from the mind of a teenager (2016)

#98
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, after Doom, the pace of shooters started going down. Even Doom 3 was (IMHO) a cutscene horror. For me the only game in the spirit of Doom (with enemies attacking en masse, with meaningful weapons, without pretending there is some interesting story) was Painkiller. Otherwise, games got slower, even ones I otherwise enjoyed immensely (e.g. Half-Life). Doom 2016 & Eternal are back to the game - with fa…

You want to hold up Daikatana as a success then? That was Romero at his most free after all. And what do you have against serious sam series that you disqualify it from being "old school"? Did they have too many cutscenes for your liking?

I bought Serious Sam from Fry's and remembered it was pretty bad (I did play it all the way through in 1 day). The multiplayer was bad.

Halflife was still a step up, having been released years prior. The gameplay of HL had stagnated at that point so I was looking for anything else.

Re: Dusk is a 90s style shooter from the mind of a teenager (2016)

#99
post #4

Just in case anyone is wary and is tempted to write Dusk off as just a cheap cash-in on some recent retro/low-fi trend. It really isn't - it's a spectacularly fun and creative game with solid mechanics. If you prefer a little more colour you can also check out Amid Evil or Ion Fury There's another upcoming game I'm keeping an eye on - Hrot. It's a solo-dev effort with a home-made engine written in Pascal (!) set in a…

At this point New Blood products are an instant purchase. Dusk, Amid Evil, and Ultrakill have been fantastically fun for me.

I even broke my "no early access games" rule and picked up Wrath: Aeon of Ruin from 3D Realms. Absolutely love it so far.

Maybe I'm easily pleased but this new boomer shooter era has made gaming fun for me again.

Re: Dusk is a 90s style shooter from the mind of a teenager (2016)

#100
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Halo's trick was to sloooow the action down. I agree that the action was slower, however, Halo's real trick was designing a set of weapons that were fun to use, but were mostly horribly inaccurate. The sniper was the clear exception. I did a controller VS mouse/keyboard competition with Halo 1 on PC vs the best console Halo player in my Battalion when we were deployed to Kuwait. We would both use the same weapons at…

I think I see your point about inaccurate Halo weapons, but as I recall the Halo 1 pistol has sniper-like accuracy (even a scope!) Maybe that's the exception that proves the rule?

It does, and some of the later Halos had more accurate weapons (I recall a 3 or 4 shot burst rifle being the new starting weapon?).

The pistol actually seemed popular among players with better accuracy than myself, specifically because it was one of the few weapons accurate enough to reliably land headshots.

I tried some of the later Halo games, and it felt very non-Halo, and I think this pins it down. In the original Halo, it was relatively difficult to die instantly. Grenades, sniper rifles, the bazooka, and the hand sword were the only weapons that could do it, and each of them had substantial tradeoffs (grenades were limited, the bazooka traveled rather slowly and only killed on direct hits or very close hits, etc). Now there are tons of weapons that can kill in one hit. I think the starting rifle can't one shot, but two bursts to the head is death. And they've turned up the aim assist to the point where players are fairly good at getting headshots.

It misses all those "if I hide behind this rock and let my shields regen, I might survive" moments. There's no tension to the game as you struggle to survive; in a flash you're either the conqueror or the conquered. There's no cat and mouse as you chase someone through their base, hoping they don't hide behind a corner and stick you with a plasma grenade.

Maybe the tension is what I miss more than the slower speed of play. After all, fast playing games can still be fun (like Sonic) because they keep that tension that you could die at any second. That kind of tension that keeps you on the edge of your seat, so when you finally make it through you get the level you lean back and pat yourself on the shoulder. Modern AAA games seem to want to get directly to the dopamine hit, so they crushed the combat sequence into a very small number of actions so that you can do it over and over again faster. It just doesn't do as much for me.

Post reply on HN