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Does Apple really log every app you run? A technical look

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Re: Does Apple really log every app you run? A technical look

#91

There will be a day when all apps on a mac will only be installable from the app store. Developers will be forced to buy macs and subscribe to Apple’s developer program to support it. Customers will be trained to not care. And HN Apple fanboys and fangirls will try to justify why this is a Good Thing(TM).

We’ve been hearing that for years, yet it hasn’t happened. Apple seems to recognize the value of the Mac as an general computing platform.

Re: Does Apple really log every app you run? A technical look

#92

While other posts on this topic are too alarmist, this one is way too Apple apologetic for my taste. * There is no information on how often the validation happens. All this investigation concludes is that it doesn't happen when closing and immediately re-opening an app. Is it every week? Every reboot? Every hour? If it's less, that's essentially the same as doing it on every launch. * There is no justification for se…

Wait. Is it not common knowledge that Android and iOS log every application you open down to the exact millisecond you open and close them? Is it not common knowledge how telemetry works for the operating systems? They generally batch up a bunch of logs like this, encrypt them, compress them, and then send them to the mothership (hopefully when you're on WiFi).

Logging and telemetry are completely separate use cases. For example to do some kind of battery use accounting you need some record of when exactly which app was active.

And no, it's not widely known or documented - there is no good description of what telemetry exists or contains on iOS that I know of.

Re: Does Apple really log every app you run? A technical look

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learn about Big Sur(veillance). You can't block telemetry and it bypasses any VPN.

Well, you can block it. You need disable SIP and edit a plist.

Quick question on that. Has anyone tried disabling SIPs (csrutil disable), allowing the Little Snitch kext (spctl kext-consent add MLZF7K7B5R) and just using Little Snitch 4.6 in Big Sur?

Re: Does Apple really log every app you run? A technical look

#94
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel Apple has done privacy well in so many cases, that the way this works is really disappointing :-/

Apple has done a fantastic PR job regarding privacy. I am more skeptical about the status of actual privacy given their iMessage situation and now this.

And their participation in PRISM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_%28surveillance_program%...

Re: Does Apple really log every app you run? A technical look

#95

There will be a day when all apps on a mac will only be installable from the app store. Developers will be forced to buy macs and subscribe to Apple’s developer program to support it. Customers will be trained to not care. And HN Apple fanboys and fangirls will try to justify why this is a Good Thing(TM).

We’ve been hearing that for years, yet it hasn’t happened. Apple seems to recognize the value of the Mac as an general computing platform.

It keeps inching closer. You now have a unified arch between mobile and desktop. You were never officially able to cross compile before and now there’s yet another barrier.

Phoned signing verification is another thing that is a precursor to distribution to Apple-only distribution.

Re: Does Apple really log every app you run? A technical look

#96

OCSP doesn't seem like the right protocol for this. Apple should probably just ship you a list of hashes of revoked certificates once a day, and should do the check locally. (Obviously, the global certificate database is too big to send to every user, but Apple should be able to determine the subset of certificates they trust, and the even smaller subset of those that are revoked or compromised.) To me, it sounds lik…

This does seem like a situation where a CRL would be a better fit than OCSP. On the other hand, CRLs have been pretty thoroughly deprecated for browser usage, so Apple probably just reached for the first tool that was already available to them.

Re: Does Apple really log every app you run? A technical look

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has done a fantastic PR job regarding privacy. I am more skeptical about the status of actual privacy given their iMessage situation and now this.

And their participation in PRISM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_%28surveillance_program%...

I thought you just ended up in PRISM you don't "join" it? Just like Google found out from the Snowden leaks and then encrypted all their DC to DC fiber.

Re: Does Apple really log every app you run? A technical look

#98
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their iMessage situation?

They backup the private key to iCloud unless you manually disable backups. So even though iMessage is advertised as E2E encrypted, for the vast majority of users, Apple can read each and every message. (And even if you disable backups, Apple can still read most if not all of your messages, because the persons on the other side of the conversations have not disabled backups)

Can Apple read your iCloud storage? I’m not saying that it is, but shouldn’t that be encrypted at rest with a customer-specific key?

Re: Does Apple really log every app you run? A technical look

#99
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth noting that on ios you can never block anything - just have to put up with it.

... and that apple wants to merge its operating systems

No they don’t. They keep adding new ones.

They want to provide a consistent user experience across their ecosystem. Not the same thing.

Re: Does Apple really log every app you run? A technical look

#100
post #56
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel Apple has done privacy well in so many cases, that the way this works is really disappointing :-/

A better privacy solution would be to sync revocation lists every so often (and, if you must, right before opening a new app). Is there any privacy-preserving reason to not go this direction? How often would you expect certificates to be rescinded? You could also use a bloom filter to significantly reduce the false-positive rate.

Or something akin to OCSP stapling, which has been mentioned in a few places?
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