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California Property Taxes Mapped

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Re: California Property Taxes Mapped

#91
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's kind of insane. But it's also kind of insane that when the housing prices double or triple, you can expect your property tax to go up quite a bit as well, which makes it hard to plan for the future. I think if the value increase cap was raised (gradually) to something like 4-5% per year, you would still have assessed values trailing market values, but not by nearly as much. People could still make worst case pro…

The solution is to let people run a tab with the government. Make the minimum payment the Prop 13 rate, but if there's a change in ownership, you have to pay back the difference plus a fair rate of interest. This ensures that no one has to move because their home appreciated, but it also ensures that no one gets to pay taxes like their home never appreciated, but then pocket appreciation at sale time.

hmmm right

Re: California Property Taxes Mapped

#92
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The people with the greatest ability to pay are the ones getting the biggest tax break. They don't necessarily have any ability to pay, which is the scenario that brought prop13 to life in the first place (low-income grandma kicked to the street by taxes). Someone of modest income who bought a modest 100K house years ago isn't cash-flow rich today just because the paper value of their house went up. They are probab…

There are property tax postponement programs in California for that person and honestly, they should be downsizing: https://sco.ca.gov/ardtax_prop_tax_postponement.html Also, I think low-income grandma was and always has been a useful narrative piece. Howard Jarvis, the author of prop13, was literally a lobbyist for apartments and businesses. Please watch The First Angry Man when you get a chance: https://www.kcet.or…

> they should be downsizing

Often the house isn't much to downsize from. If they bought a modest house for 100K back then, it's probably not big.

I bought my current house in my 20s. It is tiny because it was all I could afford back then. I always expected to move up, but it hasn't happened. So I've made my life on this street, these parks and forests. I could afford to move up now but it's a nice area and it has become home. I'm not ready to retire but when I do, there's no point in downsizing, it's already tiny.

Also don't underestimate the pain of moving for an older person. I often wish my >90yr mother would move closer to here but at that age she is terrified having to change any of her regular doctors and neighbors.

The grandma may be an "useful narrative piece" and it was, but it is also very real. These are the people who benefit the most from being able to stay in their home to the end. It is very cruel to force an older person to move from their comfort zone.

Of course, corporations taking advantage of prop13 is a travesty. It should be for individuals in their own home only.

Re: California Property Taxes Mapped

#93
post #67

A see some data in my neighborhood which is weird. Comparing same model houses only (same as mine), tax rates are in the range of 5K to 8K. But just a couple of the same model houses are shown as $800 to $900! If I didn't know this neighborhood I would jump to the conclusion that those houses have been owned for so long that their taxes are so low and curse prop13. But, I've been in this neighborhood since it was bui…

> is there some tax exemption program in CA for people who qualify to some criteria? There are exemptions which allow some people (seniors and people with disabilities I think) to be "portable" with their property taxes. I.e they can buy a new property and the taxes of their old property transfer over to the new one.. Edit: found this https://www.boe.ca.gov/proptaxes/prop60-90_55over.htm

Thanks, I was aware of that. I'm not in any of those counties, so that can't explain the outlier tax rates on a few houses here being far lower than the tax on them when first constructed.

Might just be errors in the reported data.

Re: California Property Taxes Mapped

#94
post #11

I think I've seen this map before (it isn't loading as I write this). However, what I'd love to see is: What the property taxes are and what they would be if the property was purchased today. I'm not sure if an absolute amount or a percentage would be more impactful when comparing the two. I'm sure it hits hard to see your neighbors paying 10% of what you pay - but probably just as much seeing $2,000 vs $20,000 in as…

> I'm sure it hits hard to see your neighbors paying 10% of what you pay

No one should be surprised by this since it’s public information. Plus if you hang around long enough your taxes also stay frozen

Re: California Property Taxes Mapped

#95
post #41

On my block we have five nearly identical houses. My house, which I bought 12 years ago, my neighbors house, which they have been in for 22 years, my other neighbor, who has been there 45+ years, the neighbor two over who bought about five years ago, and the neighbor two over the other way who bought two weeks ago. If my tax bill is X, the rates are as follows, for nearly identical houses, all valued nearly the same…

> It's completely unfair.

Somebody call the waaahmbulance.

No CA homeowner should be surprised by this. Guess what you probably paid a higher price than them - voluntarily!!!

Re: California Property Taxes Mapped

#97
post #95
post #41

On my block we have five nearly identical houses. My house, which I bought 12 years ago, my neighbors house, which they have been in for 22 years, my other neighbor, who has been there 45+ years, the neighbor two over who bought about five years ago, and the neighbor two over the other way who bought two weeks ago. If my tax bill is X, the rates are as follows, for nearly identical houses, all valued nearly the same…

> It's completely unfair. Somebody call the waaahmbulance. No CA homeowner should be surprised by this. Guess what you probably paid a higher price than them - voluntarily!!!

I pay less than 1/2 of what they do. It’s not fair to them.

Also, I'm not sure how what I paid is at all relevant to a tax that is based on current value.

When you register a car, which is also taxed on current value, it has nothing to do with what you paid. If you got a good deal you don't save on your registration fee. Even in the first year.

Re: California Property Taxes Mapped

#98
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you move. That's how it works; if you can't afford the property taxes, you can't afford to live there.

Or abolish property taxes and fund cities with consumption taxes or some other tax

Land tax is among, if not the most equitable tax there is.

Re: California Property Taxes Mapped

#99
post #41

On my block we have five nearly identical houses. My house, which I bought 12 years ago, my neighbors house, which they have been in for 22 years, my other neighbor, who has been there 45+ years, the neighbor two over who bought about five years ago, and the neighbor two over the other way who bought two weeks ago. If my tax bill is X, the rates are as follows, for nearly identical houses, all valued nearly the same…

I grew up with the schools here back in the 90s and we largely couldn't pass new parcel taxes because "their kids already went through school and they didn't need it". They were more concerned with all the growing crime, which you would think that maybe the lack of after school programs and growing unaffordability for everyone else was part of the issue.

We still have that problem today, passing new parcel taxes. That's why every parcel tax we pass now has a clause that allows people over 55 to get out of paying it. It's the only way to get all the over 55 people to vote for it.

Re: California Property Taxes Mapped

#100
post #65
post #41

On my block we have five nearly identical houses. My house, which I bought 12 years ago, my neighbors house, which they have been in for 22 years, my other neighbor, who has been there 45+ years, the neighbor two over who bought about five years ago, and the neighbor two over the other way who bought two weeks ago. If my tax bill is X, the rates are as follows, for nearly identical houses, all valued nearly the same…

I don't think so. You lived there for a number of years and you already paid fair taxes and when you bought the property you knew what the taxes are going to be and that allowed you to plan your life. People who are buying it now also know what their taxes are going to be now, and they should thank you for your share of the taxes that you paid over the years to keep community in good shape.

And yet, in the other 49 states without Prop 13, somehow people are able to plan their lives and pay their taxes too. Keeping the taxes artificially low doesn't help with tax planning.

> and they should thank you for your share of the taxes that you paid over the years to keep community in good shape.

After four years, I'd already paid more in lifetime taxes than my neighbors. After eight years, I've paid more than they will ever pay in their lifetime.

After twelve years, my new neighbor will have paid more than my lifetime tax bill.

It's completely out of line.

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