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Elixir 1.11

elixir-lang.org

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Re: Elixir 1.11

#91

Post by joelbluminator »

triplejjj wrote: post #68
joelbluminator wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK found something to help us quantify this debate https://towardsdatascience.com/these-are-the-real-stack-over... Now this is interesting because this counts question page views, not questions asked. You can choose Elixir in that embedded tool, it's too bad its only for 2017-2018 but it still validates my point. My guess is the numbers for 2019-2020 are worse for Elixir.

I don't see how this is any better. Most traffic on SO comes from search engines and if the questions and answers are elsewhere, such as in the Elixir Forum, then search engines will lead devs away from SO. You say the language is in decline and none of this is solid evidence that's the case. It just says Elixir devs are not really active in Stack Overflow, which anyone in the community would be able to quickly point…

You asked for data, I brought you the most relevant thing possible yet you keep going to "Elixir Forum". I don't think you want to hear about data, you want to hear about findings that reenforce your opinion.

Re: Elixir 1.11

#92

Post by triplejjj »

joelbluminator wrote: post #91
triplejjj wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how this is any better. Most traffic on SO comes from search engines and if the questions and answers are elsewhere, such as in the Elixir Forum, then search engines will lead devs away from SO. You say the language is in decline and none of this is solid evidence that's the case. It just says Elixir devs are not really active in Stack Overflow, which anyone in the community would be able to quickly point…

You asked for data, I brought you the most relevant thing possible yet you keep going to "Elixir Forum". I don't think you want to hear about data, you want to hear about findings that reenforce your opinion.

Do you seriously believe that this data is “the most relevant thing possible” to assert the claims “Elixir is past its peak” and “is all down hill from here”?

I am not refuting the data, I am refuting the flawed conclusions you are drawing from it. You are taking the decline in usage of one service as an overall indicator of the community. I provided a possible explanation. I mentioned the GitHub ranks as counter evidence. But way to go on the ad-hominem.

Re: Elixir 1.11

#93

Post by 1_player »

dmix wrote: post #85

Reading through the details of this release, I have to say this sort of functional backend/compiler/performance, etc style releases make the whole product as a whole better in the long run. This tick/tock approach to releases is what every software project should strive for. Too many consumer focused products become obsessively new-feature driven development [1], often to have new things to announce, or to appease th…

IIRC some time ago José said Elixir is stable, and there's no v2.0 coming any time soon. There will be updates, but it's just polishing and refining a stable product.

The language might be still be over-hyped, but the language implementation itself has reached the plateau of productivity. Which is great, I know of some language ecosystems where true productivity is never, ever reached.

Re: Elixir 1.11

#94

Post by jake_morrison »

derefr wrote: post #19
joelbluminator wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, looking at the numbers in the UK on Linkedin: 132 Elixir jobs for the entire UK (ruby has 1941, php has 4832, java 10973). I'm not saying it's impossible but 132 mentions is not a lot. And it's not as if no one is fighting you for these Elixir jobs, quite a few people still want these jobs. Is Elixir still being chosen for new projects by startups or is it all python / go / rust ? The numbers for Elixir are ver…

People who are hiring for roles using smaller languages know that there are few people local to them who are practitioners in the language. They tend to do one of two things about that: 1. They don't even bother advertising a position in local geographical "general" job boards. (Job postings on LinkedIn cost money for every day you have them up; they're a waste of resources if you can predict with high confidence tha…

There is also a funny effect which is driving Python to be the most "popular" language. Someone will post a job advert for e.g. Java, and list Python as being one of the "nice to have" languages, either due to machine learning, devops, or just because it's nice to know a scripting language. Python is currently the nice to have language. So you see it on the list of hot languages, but in fact there are not all that many Python jobs, they are all actually e.g. Java jobs.

Re: Elixir 1.11

#95

Post by juhatl »

triplejjj wrote: post #92
joelbluminator wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You asked for data, I brought you the most relevant thing possible yet you keep going to "Elixir Forum". I don't think you want to hear about data, you want to hear about findings that reenforce your opinion.

Do you seriously believe that this data is “the most relevant thing possible” to assert the claims “Elixir is past its peak” and “is all down hill from here”? I am not refuting the data, I am refuting the flawed conclusions you are drawing from it. You are taking the decline in usage of one service as an overall indicator of the community. I provided a possible explanation. I mentioned the GitHub ranks as counter evi…

I've dabbled in Elixir for quite a lot over the past few years, and I have to agree with the general trail of thought you're showing. If I have a question about Elixir, I don't even think about going to StackOverflow for it. I either go ask on ElixirForum, or Google for my problem (which, in most cases, lands me to an ElixirForum thread rather than a StackOverflow one). I think the surge in the use of ElixirForum is inversely correlated with the use of StackOverflow: the more the forum has grown, the less reason there has been to use SO.

I do worry about the impact it has on these "popularity tracking" services though, since the discussion living elsewhere might (falsely?) indicate that the language isn't attracting developers.

Re: Elixir 1.11

#96

Post by joelbluminator »

juhatl wrote: post #95
triplejjj wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you seriously believe that this data is “the most relevant thing possible” to assert the claims “Elixir is past its peak” and “is all down hill from here”? I am not refuting the data, I am refuting the flawed conclusions you are drawing from it. You are taking the decline in usage of one service as an overall indicator of the community. I provided a possible explanation. I mentioned the GitHub ranks as counter evi…

I've dabbled in Elixir for quite a lot over the past few years, and I have to agree with the general trail of thought you're showing. If I have a question about Elixir, I don't even think about going to StackOverflow for it. I either go ask on ElixirForum, or Google for my problem (which, in most cases, lands me to an ElixirForum thread rather than a StackOverflow one). I think the surge in the use of ElixirForum is…

Interesting theory. Let's agree that it's inconclusive then!

Re: Elixir 1.11

#97

Post by bot41 »

samgranieri wrote: post #26
bot41 wrote: post #3

I started to learn Elixir and Phoenix awhile ago. I liked it but stopped due to (i) there's no job opportunities near me for Elixir and I wanted to the learning/projects I do on my own to help me in interviews; and (ii) it's not a strongly typed language which I have come to learn is my favored type of language

I recommend starting up a side project to learn a language. That's how I learned Ruby, and consequently Ruby on Rails 15 years ago.

I really think that is the only way. My issue is that I want to make the most of my free time in order to help me in interviews. I think picking up Elixir/Phoenix wouldn't help me since there are less jobs and I would have to take focus away from a stack that I have a better chance of getting a job in.

Re: Elixir 1.11

#98

Post by bot41 »

strzibny wrote: post #46
peruvian wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had this issue too, even before the pandemic. In fact back when I was looking even if there were Elixir job postings they often strongly preferred a Ruby/Rails background on top of that, which I didn't have. I just decided it's one of my hobby languages. If a job comes out of it in the future, that's awesome.

I will give an opposite experience. I was hired with zero previous knowledge of Elixir or functional stack (well, except Haskell course at uni). The other dev actually came from C# background (I came from Ruby). 100% remote.

How did you find the job and how did the interview go?

Re: Elixir 1.11

#99

Post by [deleted] »

lostcolony wrote: post #77
andy_ppp wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read that comment less literally and more like “they just about work for their function, but damn they ugly” :-)

Sure, but do you interpret "functional and utilitarian" as meaning anything different? Utilitarian tends to imply functional + ugly.

[deleted]

Re: Elixir 1.11

#100

Post by sodapopcan »

dnautics wrote: post #88
sodapopcan wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ha! That's a new use of `!` I haven't seen :) But I suppose we are saying completely opposite things. I use rebinding only when I re-bind once. In your example, I would use pipes with a single re-bind: def foo(bar) do bar = bar |> decorate() |> some_more() {:ok, bar} end

well, I guess I gave a poor example, suppose you needed to destructure that bar! out of an ok tuple. def foo(bar!) do with {:ok, bar!} Inspiration came from julia, where ! at the end of the function means "watch out, one of the parameters is gonna be mutated!"

Ah ok, I see! I didn't think of this situation. I'm pretty new to the language and only have done hobby projects so I haven't run into this specific scenario. I think here I would just use different names, even if ugly. To me the only "danger" is just in getting confused about what is what. There is otherwise no danger from a memory standpoint since Elixir is immutable. But I can appreciate your use of it here. [edited to add a missing word]
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