Earlier quoted context omitted.
Its 2020 and you're still on a crt?
Duckhunt only works on a CRT with the original light gun. What are your priorities?
Not anymore: https://youtu.be/hfo004_4xwU
DDR5 Is Coming: First 64GB DDR5-4800 Modules from SK Hynix
91–100 of 217 posts
Re: DDR5 Is Coming: First 64GB DDR5-4800 Modules from SK Hynix
#92The unanswered question is, will it be cheaper? Price / GB of DRAM hasn't actually fallen much in the 10 years of progression.[1] LPDDR is still over $3/GB. UDIMM is still ~$3 /GB, which is about the same in 2010 / 2011. i.e Despite what you may heard about DRAM price collapse in 2019, the price floor of DRAM has been pretty much the same over the past 10 years. Every other silicon has gotten cheaper, NAND, ICs, just…
It seems nearly impossible that they aren't back to price fixing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRAM_price_fixing
They aren't price fixing anymore. Now it's called CapEx and water start.
Re: DDR5 Is Coming: First 64GB DDR5-4800 Modules from SK Hynix
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why would you expect better performance at a lower price?
Because the manufacturing techniques have improved? You can see the effects of better manufacturing techniques in other parts.
In the end price discovery is supply/demand, and it appears investment in DRAM manufacturing is focused on improving RAM performance, and just keeping up with demand, not outpacing it.
Since the barrier to entry is very high, there's not so much pressure to compete further on price.
Re: DDR5 Is Coming: First 64GB DDR5-4800 Modules from SK Hynix
#94I'm happy that I put off upgrading my pc long enough to skip a RAM generation.
I like to grab RAM towards the end of the generation, so far it has been the best bang for my buck (for my personal computer). From the production estimates, looks like I'll jump into DDR5 at the end of 2023 or most likely 2024
That's a good idea. Haven't thought of that. The price of the ending generation would be great while the maturity has peaked.
Re: DDR5 Is Coming: First 64GB DDR5-4800 Modules from SK Hynix
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
PS5 is an x86 CPU + AMD RDNA GPU. PS4 was an x86 CPU + AMD GCN GPU. A huge amount of games will be portable from the get-go. GCN and RDNA have extremely similar assembly languages. The only major assembly language change from GCN -> RDNA is DPP / cross-lane operations (kinda like pshufb from x86). But I'm not even sure if the PS4 had those instructions.
It's deeper than that, the shaders are _binary_ compatible. > The only major assembly language change from GCN -> RDNA is DPP / cross-lane operations (kinda like pshufb from x86). But I'm not even sure if the PS4 had those instructions. Yeah, it didn't. AFAIK, they were added in GCN 3, while the PS4 is GCN 1.1.
> It's deeper than that, the shaders are _binary_ compatible.
I'd be surprised if this fact was true.
GCN 1.0 and GCN 1.2 aren't even binary compatible. Opcode 0x1 is "ReadLane" in GCN 1.0, but is "Add F32" in GCN 1.2.
https://github.com/CLRX/CLRX-mirror/wiki/GcnInstrsVop2
Vop2 are the "2-source / 1-destination" instruction format. You can see from the table that GCN 1.0 and GCN 1.2 don't even line up at all.
It wouldn't be hard to compile GCN 1.0 into GCN 1.2 instructions, but it wouldn't be binary-compatible, just assembly-language compatible (like 8080 -> 8086).
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Some other facts:
* RDNA is Wave32 native. Wave64 compatibility is available though, so that should mostly work for backwards compatibility (aside from DPP, which you do point out may not exist in PS4)
* S_WAITCNT ("wait for memory" instruction) has grossly changed in RDNA. In GCN, waiting for VM_CNT(0) will wait on loads and stores. But VM_CNT(0) only waits for loads on RDNA.
You need to change every S_WAITCNT VM_CNT(0) (GCN) into S_WAITCNT VM_CNT(0), followed by a new S_WAITCNT_VSCNT 0 instruction (wait for 0 outstanding loads, THEN wait for 0 outstanding stores).
This isn't "binary compatible", but if you just inserted one instruction on every GCN S_WAITCNT, you'd get the proper behavior in RDNA.
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I'm seeing GCN -> RDNA as a "mostly easy compile" between the assembly languages. But it doesn't seem binary compatible to me. I wouldn't be surprised if there were one or two issues that popped up however.
Re: DDR5 Is Coming: First 64GB DDR5-4800 Modules from SK Hynix
#96The unanswered question is, will it be cheaper? Price / GB of DRAM hasn't actually fallen much in the 10 years of progression.[1] LPDDR is still over $3/GB. UDIMM is still ~$3 /GB, which is about the same in 2010 / 2011. i.e Despite what you may heard about DRAM price collapse in 2019, the price floor of DRAM has been pretty much the same over the past 10 years. Every other silicon has gotten cheaper, NAND, ICs, just…
Why would you expect better performance at a lower price?
Because historically this happens in every technology.
Re: DDR5 Is Coming: First 64GB DDR5-4800 Modules from SK Hynix
#97Re: DDR5 Is Coming: First 64GB DDR5-4800 Modules from SK Hynix
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
> CPU chiplets are coupled with different IO dies depending on the design How does that differ from Intel's approach?
Intel desktop CPUs are monolithic. A 10900K is a single die, meanwhile a AMD 3900X is three dies: two compute dies and one I/O die (which are sourced from two manufacturers on two different processes afaik). An AMD server CPU has the same compute dies, except more of them, and a very different IO die. The AMD compute dies are only connected to the IO die and other compute dies (and power). All IO connections exclusiv…
So AMD is back to having a northbridge again but it's on the same package instead of the motherboard for latency reasons? Or could we actually get away with a northbridge on the motherboard again?
Re: DDR5 Is Coming: First 64GB DDR5-4800 Modules from SK Hynix
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why would you expect better performance at a lower price?
It is easy. For example you could hire 10000 people to perform calculations for your complex mathematical model (like it was done century ago) or you can buy Raspberry PI to perform the same task in no time. Which will be cheaper?
This is a bad comparison. DRAM margins are razor thin and unlike transistors, DRAM has not gotten much smaller, which is the main cost savings gained from process improvements.
Instead, server and accelerator vendors want ever faster and higher performance DRAM, and so these performance gains trickle down to consumers, but nothing is driving price down.
People on here literally think Moore's is a natural law and if computer hardware isn't getting 15% cheaper every year there must be funny business involved...
Re: DDR5 Is Coming: First 64GB DDR5-4800 Modules from SK Hynix
#100The unanswered question is, will it be cheaper? Price / GB of DRAM hasn't actually fallen much in the 10 years of progression.[1] LPDDR is still over $3/GB. UDIMM is still ~$3 /GB, which is about the same in 2010 / 2011. i.e Despite what you may heard about DRAM price collapse in 2019, the price floor of DRAM has been pretty much the same over the past 10 years. Every other silicon has gotten cheaper, NAND, ICs, just…
It seems nearly impossible that they aren't back to price fixing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRAM_price_fixing
Until the fines/consequences are worse than the profits made, why would they ever stop?