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On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

w3c.studio24.net

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Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#91

Post by Drdrdrq »

bad_user wrote: post #45
dgellow wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to say that I’m not sure why we would care about the license of their CMS. Their work is on standardization, whatever tool works well for them in their context is a good choice. What matters is their output, that standard documents are available publicly and are accessible by the majority.

The long term support of that CMS also matters. Exported HTML/CSS/JS files look more and more like binary blobs. If you can't edit those pages in 10 years from now, without yet another expensive migration, then in retrospect it will rightfully seem like a poor decision.

Not really. As they explain, they took great care to make sure that the output (and thus saved data) is in line with W3C mission. Maybe migration might be needed in the future, but I see no reason why it would be any more expensive than migrating from WP (which is, btw, notorious for its storage schema choices).

Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#92

Post by dmurray »

z3t4 wrote: post #72
cjfd wrote: post #15

The 'eat your own dog food' principle would dictate that the W3C writes their site in plain html + css. The fact that this is not even considered proves the these languages are so incredibly non ergonomic. I know.... it is an often reiterated point, but when it is the site of the W3C it really is very hard not to notice this....

There are two camps withing the HTML/CSS community, one that thinks HTML and CSS should be hand written (with the help of a static site generator), the other one thinks that HTML and CSS should always be generated by a design tool like Frontpage, CMS, Wordpress/Gutenberg et.al.

There's really no one who thinks both use cases are important?

Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#93

Post by pindab0ter »

lovetocode wrote: post #86

Am I the only one who hates the whole concept of a CMS? I much prefer just working HTML changes into a dev cycle. CMS encourages marketing and sales people to wreak havoc on your web experience. Working in HTML changes into the dev process also helps keep the engineering team aligned with the business/marketing strategy. I use Middleman for generating static html websites and it works great. I would love to see the c…

There’s real value in allowing people with no HTML/CSS knowledge to write content. I also don’t see how writing and publishing content would wreak havoc on someone’s web experience, or am I missing something?

Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#94

Post by tweetle_beetle »

fevangelou wrote: post #33

Not a WP fan (although I've built large scale sites professionally) but the arguments regarding the frontend are kinda BS. What does Gutenberg have to do with the entire frontend layout? Gutenberg can still be used just for the main content region, not surrounding blocks. Not really a "talented" team after all. Plus, UK dev companies tend to be biased towards Craft these days cause (guess why) it's also UK based. I a…

> Plus, UK dev companies tend to be biased towards Craft these days...

This seems a tad hyperbolic surely? For every Craft CMS site built in the UK, my guess is that there are 200+ WordPress sites built. Is there a particular niche that you are seeing this trend in - enterprise sites?

Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#95

Post by rado »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #83
frereubu wrote: post #76

I'm technical director of an agency that builds websites solely in WordPress, and I can say with feeling that Gutenberg has (so far) been a disaster not just in terms of accessibility but in terms of clarity of the development process. It's been a moving target since day one, with us constantly scrambling to keep up with large changes in each release. We held off for a while, and have only built three sites with it,…

Gutenberg shipped way too soon. It has been a textbook case of how not to launch a product. Solid idea...horrendous execution. Mullenweg owes the WP community a massive apology. He especially owes the #a11y Community an apology. Hint: In either case don't hold your breath. But more importantly, it should not be in core. Full stop. Once WP became REST-driven the push should have been to lighten core. That is to decoup…

Meanwhile, the core lacks: multilingual, CDN support, caching. Essentials.

Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#96

Post by ThinkBeat »

lovetocode wrote: post #86

Am I the only one who hates the whole concept of a CMS? I much prefer just working HTML changes into a dev cycle. CMS encourages marketing and sales people to wreak havoc on your web experience. Working in HTML changes into the dev process also helps keep the engineering team aligned with the business/marketing strategy. I use Middleman for generating static html websites and it works great. I would love to see the c…

I think all CMS I have used (aside for one I built of course) Are annoying, and getting pixel perfect results is challenging. I presume that will become easier when we move to headless CMS.

The reason I like he and that often insists on it ,is because my team finds it both tedious and boring to have to make constant changes every time some in marking or legal or content writers which to ”change a few things” It is also far cheaper for them to so it themselves, and my team can can focus on on more important things. And yes there will be times when a developer needs to make changes still.

The company I am at now sends” superusers to pretty tremendously comprehensive training on how to use the CMS tool. Usually, one or two people from each department are chosen to be superusers.

That all works out much better than my team had to do the training. We were frankly not very good at it and it is far cheaper to outsource that for us.

All of that means that our team get magnitudes fewer phone calls or tickets about how to do X or Y since the go to the super users for help. If the superusers are not about to figure it out he or she contacts us.

This is awesome because when the superusers contacts us she can give a much more insightful description that a newbie employee with limited exposure to CMS's. To our tools. And often not that familiar with computers.

People often talk about CMS being too slow in production. We have very few problems with that.

We took a lot of time evaluating and testing the tools we use both for performance and for ease of expanding extending and customizing and developing And superusers how we believe our superusers will like the interface. And yes of course we had focus groups with potential superusers we're they could give us feedback.

Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#98

Post by Conan_Kudo »

tiborsaas wrote: post #78

It's no wonder, Craft is a great pick. I've built numerous sites with it and it works like a charm. What they nailed down is that it has great UX for content creators and developers as well. The speed at which you can build sites is amazing. You can even build your startup MVP with it if you consider it as a headless, REST API prototype tool. Data modelling is where it excels. I guess I have to stop praising, it star…

The source is shared, it is not an open source CMS. If it was an open source CMS, it would be provided under an open source license that complies with the OSD in full.

Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#99

Post by LordAtlas »

rado wrote: post #95
chiefalchemist wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gutenberg shipped way too soon. It has been a textbook case of how not to launch a product. Solid idea...horrendous execution. Mullenweg owes the WP community a massive apology. He especially owes the #a11y Community an apology. Hint: In either case don't hold your breath. But more importantly, it should not be in core. Full stop. Once WP became REST-driven the push should have been to lighten core. That is to decoup…

Meanwhile, the core lacks: multilingual, CDN support, caching. Essentials.

Even something basic like a way to categorise and manage your media library is missing without freakin' plugins.

Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#100

Post by LordAtlas »

411111111111111 wrote: post #61
cheeze wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironic that the link looks kinda... terrible. I can read it, but it's not pleasant at all.

Design is entirely broken in Firefox on android... Half the header is cut off etc

Hover your mouse over the header.
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