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US military increasingly using drone missile with flying blades in Syria

theguardian.com

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Re: US military increasingly using drone missile with flying blades in Syria

#91

Post by fuoqi »

duxup wrote: post #84
fuoqi wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest reason why they do not control the territory is the US and Turkey military presence in the region (with some active interventions from time to time), effectively it's a military occupation, but with extra steps. After Trump declared that US troops will be withdrawn and they will not defend Kurds against Turkish forces, the government has easily reclaimed control over the large area with a very limited fig…

I would go a little farther back and say the biggest reason was the Civil War... after that things played out.

Yes, but let's not be naive. The forces which were opposing the Asad regime were actively supported by Gulf states with political backing from the US and Europe (and quite probably with some intelligence officers coordinating situation on the ground), which led to the hot civil war together with the failing of the Syrian government.

Re: US military increasingly using drone missile with flying blades in Syria

#92

Post by formercoder »

non-entity wrote: post #47
formercoder wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you are only under the impression that your freedom is not threatened due to the legions of people working in the background to secure it.

Yeah because those "legions of people" surely haven't done more to erode our freedoms over the past decades than some militants in the thord world.

This is similar to the prevention paradox with COVID. We will never know what inaction would have brought.

Re: US military increasingly using drone missile with flying blades in Syria

#93

Post by colinmhayes »

liability wrote: post #30
dagav wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't threaten your freedom, but they threaten the freedom of the people who live in the Middle East

Why should we believe that? Why do you believe that? Who is to say the people targeted have affiliations to the organizations claimed? The US federal government has little credibility. Usually we demand they back up their assertions in court before they're believed. Courts exist because we know governments lie, so how can you be so confident here?

You can watch frontlines on the Syria conflict if you don't believe the government.

Re: US military increasingly using drone missile with flying blades in Syria

#94

Post by buran77 »

jeanvalmarc wrote: post #48
x86_64Ubuntu wrote: post #2

I'm kind of over the whole "Look, we killed someone far, far, far away for dubious reasons with NEW technology" articles. These folks halfway across the world aren't bothering, nor do they actually threaten my freedom in any way shape or form.

> These folks halfway across the world aren't bothering, nor do they actually threaten my freedom in any way shape or form. As a counterargument, you can't know that. It seems like this argument could be restated as "I don't trust the US government to dispassionately determine who is a threat and even if they were a threat I am not in favor of killing people as a response." Which seems fair but the world is a complic…

> the world is a complicated place and there are justifiable uses of drone strikes

Herein lies the problem, different people and groups see different actions as justifiable or not. Drone striking the hell out of a country half way around the world has very debatable justifications. And what throws a lot of shade on the justification is when the country doing the bombing goes on to ally itself with with countries that are, from the point of view of the justification, no better or worse than the one being bombed.

Re: US military increasingly using drone missile with flying blades in Syria

#95

Post by fuoqi »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #62
nimish wrote: post #35

It's not clear to me why we're focusing on killing people in Syria. What are we gaining from doing this?

Firstly there's the vengeance aspect. Al Qaeda did 9/11, along with many other terror attacks against the US. Hurras al-din has also given support to ISIS, who destabilized a good chunk of the middle east. It's a bad look since a lot of Americans died to effect regime change in Iraq. If Iraq ends up turning into a full-blown theocracy, it makes our efforts there seem even more wasteful. According to the Russians, he…

>Al Qaeda did 9/11, along with many other terror attacks against the US.

This statement is funny because the US support of "moderates" has resulted in military support of the Al-Nusra Front, al-Qaeda wing in Syria (they have tried to rebrand themselves, but only blind will not recognize in them a radical islamist organization).

Re: US military increasingly using drone missile with flying blades in Syria

#96

Post by duxup »

fuoqi wrote: post #91
duxup wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would go a little farther back and say the biggest reason was the Civil War... after that things played out.

Yes, but let's not be naive. The forces which were opposing the Asad regime were actively supported by Gulf states with political backing from the US and Europe (and quite probably with some intelligence officers coordinating situation on the ground), which led to the hot civil war together with the failing of the Syrian government.

It's not like that same regime didn't make their own deals without folks from the outside...

I don't buy into the idea that the Syrian government can claim some level of legitimacy by default and everyone else is subject to criticism for gathering support from other places....

The local's weren't sitting around happy as a clam and just up and decided to start a civil war because someone told them to, it's not that simple.

Re: US military increasingly using drone missile with flying blades in Syria

#97

Post by the-dude »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #26
hirundo wrote: post #5

How long until the US is subject to this kind of targeted assassination? It doesn't seem that this tech is so inaccessible to state actors with billions to invest. There are sufficient such enemies. Is the Secret Service really confident that it can protect its charges from this kind of attack? I think they'll find that a drone missile can also be a boomerang. EDIT: The objections to this scenario are taking it more…

Never because the US tightly controls its airspace. Targeted killings in the first world tend to make use of poisons and bullets.

It worked wonders on 9/11.

Re: US military increasingly using drone missile with flying blades in Syria

#98

Post by rayiner »

mercurysmessage wrote: post #66
3131s wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re certainly bothering people and threatening peoples’ freedom. All of them? What percentage of the dead were terrorists? Because "they" in this case is referring to around 1 million people now.

People fail to notice that many who are killed are innocent, and this actually creates more people willing to fight back. It's a vicious cycle, and the murdering of innocent people only makes it worse.

It’s not clear to me whether that’s true on a larger scale. Obviously, innocent people die in war and that’s regrettable and to be minimized. But innocent people also suffer from the instability and insecurity caused by terrorism. Note that while most countries opposed the US invasion of Afghanistan, opinion polling in India—which shares a border with that country—showed a majority of people there supported military action against the Taliban.

Note that leaving terrorism unchecked also has a cost. I agree folks tend to have a perception of terrorism risks that outweighs the actual cost in lives. But while the psychology is in peoples’ heads, the dollar impact is real. People don’t want to invest in an area where terrorism isn’t a risk. People with means and opportunities leave such areas, creating brain drain. The existence of these unstable places like Afghanistan imposes a real cost on the people in surrounding countries.

Innocent people will die in any significant military action. And if avoiding those casualties is the overriding concern, then you should never engage in non-defensive military action. And that’s certainly a very defensible position, but I’m not sure it’s always the correct one.

Re: US military increasingly using drone missile with flying blades in Syria

#99

Post by fuoqi »

duxup wrote: post #96
fuoqi wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but let's not be naive. The forces which were opposing the Asad regime were actively supported by Gulf states with political backing from the US and Europe (and quite probably with some intelligence officers coordinating situation on the ground), which led to the hot civil war together with the failing of the Syrian government.

It's not like that same regime didn't make their own deals without folks from the outside... I don't buy into the idea that the Syrian government can claim some level of legitimacy by default and everyone else is subject to criticism for gathering support from other places.... The local's weren't sitting around happy as a clam and just up and decided to start a civil war because someone told them to, it's not that si…

There is a REALLY big difference between country-wide protests and a hot civil war. Without support from the Gulf state and the West, I think it's quite probable that this civil war wouldn't have started.

>I don't buy into the idea that the Syrian government can claim some level of legitimacy by default and everyone else is subject to criticism for gathering support from other places....

The fact that the government is recognized internationally (see my first comment) DOES automatically give it a legitimacy in the eyes of international community. Unilateral support of rebel forces opposing the recognized government without UN Security Council sanction is generally viewed as an act of aggression and usually condemned, but I guess the US is so "exceptional"[0] the usual rules do not apply to it.

[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxndIsku2W8

Re: US military increasingly using drone missile with flying blades in Syria

#100

Post by duxup »

fuoqi wrote: post #99
duxup wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not like that same regime didn't make their own deals without folks from the outside... I don't buy into the idea that the Syrian government can claim some level of legitimacy by default and everyone else is subject to criticism for gathering support from other places.... The local's weren't sitting around happy as a clam and just up and decided to start a civil war because someone told them to, it's not that si…

There is a REALLY big difference between country-wide protests and a hot civil war. Without support from the Gulf state and the West, I think it's quite probable that this civil war wouldn't have started. >I don't buy into the idea that the Syrian government can claim some level of legitimacy by default and everyone else is subject to criticism for gathering support from other places.... The fact that the government…

It's an interesting contrast, your concern about outsiders involvement, and the basis for support for a oppressive government ... recognition from the outside.

I believe government legitimacy has more to do with it's own people's feelings about the government's legitimacy and that government's own actions.

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