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Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

nature.com

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Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#91

Post by crusso »

bad_user wrote: post #24
Cro_on wrote: post #10

If there were ever a panacea, it would be fasting. The more tight and widespread the research becomes, the more that we prove what humanity has known anecdotally throughout civilisation. From being a Roman cure for epileptic seizures, through the integral practice in most religions, and to the 21st century where we start to prove that it increases both healthspan and lifespan. I find it quite interesting that somethi…

And yet, most of what you said is bullshit that's not evidence based. "Autophagy", that famous process which supposedly happens during fasting, that miraculously regenerates us, actually happens during caloric restriction, and it's actually a daily process that happens during the night, in everyone, while glycogen stores get naturally depleted. And we have no evidence that increased autophagy levels are beneficial, q…

"bullshit", "quackery", ""healers" and witches"

Is all that really necessary?

When it comes to human health, the unknowns are legion. Medical science is in its infancy, but too many act as though it's a mature discipline built upon rock-solid theories with few problems.

20 years ago, I noticed that my mental fog cleared up and I felt healthier when I ate very low carb, I looked to pioneers like Atkins and others who predicted my results much better than those pushing the "food pyramid". Those pioneers were called "quacks". I was told over and over by supposed experts: "Calories in equals calories out.", "A calorie is just a calorie.", "You're going to ruin your kidneys on a high protein, high fat diet.", and on and on.

The problem isn't science. Science is the best method we have to discover the nature reality. The problem is with science used as a religion or political weapon without humility or appreciation of its flaws and limitations.

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#92

Post by dasudasu »

nwienert wrote: post #74
hourislate wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have fasted 100 lbs away over the last 2 years. I adhere to an 18/6 time delay eating schedule but have done 2-3 day fasts with 1 refeed meal for a month at a time. I've also done countless 5-7 day fasts. I've gone as long as 12 days with nothing but water. There were many months where I could count the number of times I ate on one hand. My last go was every other day with just one meal on my eating days. I did tha…

I’ve never done the long term fasts, but my anecdotal experience also confirms this - I definitely have significantly less mental clarity on any type of fast I’ve done, to the point where it definitely affects my productivity even by end of day 1.

Myself as well. You just hit low blood sugar. Technically not fasting, but I have an appetite so weak I can skip meals easily and will do so if I don’t pay attention. Eventually I just feel very lethargic and enter what I can only conceive of as “starvation” or “energy conservation” mode. It’s not pleasant. I also have trouble with muscular mass being the first thing to go.

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#93

Post by dqv »

koevet wrote: post #87
zhynn wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always find it funny that fasting comes up so often, but a ctrl-f almost never turns up someone mentioning Ramadan. Nearly 25% of the world population fasts for an entire month, but it's almost invisible to the western world. While I don't agree with all of the details of the fast (I drink water), I think it is an admirable holiday, it's way healthier for the world than Christmas or Thanksgiving.

I lived in Saudi Arabia for two years and did Ramadan, out of not wanting to offend my Saudi colleagues who were fasting. As a practictioner of fasting, I don't think that "modern" Ramadan has much to do with fasting anymore - at least, in the way I see fasting working for me. Reason being that at the end of each day of fasting, there is a very large amount of food being consumed, and I mean a lot. Fasting is about c…

I've heard the same, although it was only with one person I know. I was talking to my friend about Ramadan and how I thought it was a really healthy behavior. She laughed and told me that a lot of people eat garbage (her word, not mine - a lot of fatty and fried foods) and she had to take the initiative to eat healthier stuff during Ramadan.

Still, it definitely gives you the opportunity to reset every year.

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#94

Post by Cro_on »

rlv-dan wrote: post #19
Cro_on wrote: post #10

If there were ever a panacea, it would be fasting. The more tight and widespread the research becomes, the more that we prove what humanity has known anecdotally throughout civilisation. From being a Roman cure for epileptic seizures, through the integral practice in most religions, and to the 21st century where we start to prove that it increases both healthspan and lifespan. I find it quite interesting that somethi…

How long do you need to fast for benefits? Is water the only supplement allowed? Curious

woow, other comment recommending fifteen day fast is a) dangerous and b) doesn't answer your question??

i fast twice per week for ~30 hours and drink copious amounts of tea and coffee. but intermittent fasting also works, the really important information is that ketosis can begin after as little as 12 hours, so basically fast for a minimum 14 hours if you want any effect at all, and everything after that is bonus. no extras in your coffees btw, though a splash of milk / coconut oil in your breakfast coffee is acceptable :)

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#95

Post by jjallen »

hourislate wrote: post #61
mmhsieh wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

while on fasts, you get an energy level and mental clarity that has to be felt to be believed. everyone should try it at least once.

I have fasted 100 lbs away over the last 2 years. I adhere to an 18/6 time delay eating schedule but have done 2-3 day fasts with 1 refeed meal for a month at a time. I've also done countless 5-7 day fasts. I've gone as long as 12 days with nothing but water. There were many months where I could count the number of times I ate on one hand. My last go was every other day with just one meal on my eating days. I did tha…

I start to get this clarity and energy around the 24 hour mark. It is unmistakable.

Each time I hit that point I get the clarity and energy, and remember that it happens each time. Pretty interesting. So much energy I can't sleep and end up eating when I can't sleep which breaks the fast.

I am only 5kgs over weight at this point if that is relevant for anyone.

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#96

Post by jungletime »

If this turns out to be true, then the practice through the centuries, of a "Religious Pilgrimage" might be effective too. Walking all day, with little food, would put someone in a calorie deficit, combined the stress of extraneous exercise might trigger cell death in cancer cells.

Perhaps, completely changing one's environment. Example going from a city to live in a forrest, might also trigger different genetic pathways, and awaken the immune system.

Many narrative stories have this pattern of someone getting sick and retreating, going into nature, in pursuit of fresh air or sunshine.

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#97

Post by unishark »

teraku wrote: post #76
markus92 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately that is far outside my expertise. The study here used a diet that is supposed to mimick the effects of fasting by having a low calorie/protein diet. In the discussion, they say the effects on a growth factor can be measured in blood plasma after 48 hours of fasting, or 48 hours of this diet. My layman guess is that the best schedule is probably the one you can adhere to.

If it's a low protein diet, couldn't the lack of certain aminoacids which promotes cell growth (and by that, also cancer growth) also aid slowing cancer? Layman here, just popped into my mind.

The explanation in the article is sort of along those lines, if cancer cells' inability to switch to a protective state is due to their faulty programming always keeping them in a growth mode:

"Essentially, fasting causes a switch in healthy cells from a proliferative state towards a maintenance and repair state. Malignant cells, in contrast, seem to be unable to enter this protective state because of oncoprotein activity, and therefore fail to adapt to nutrient scarce conditions. Instead, fasting deprives proliferating cancer cells of nutrients, growth and other factors, which renders them more sensitive to cancer therapy and increases cell death"

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#98

Post by keithwarren »

markus92 wrote: post #27

Interesting study with, as always, a lot of caveats. The most we can take from this is that it's worth to study more, the effect is existing but not extreme. I don't get the submitted title here claiming that it protects from side effects. The study does not mention this at all, just that the side effects are similar despite omission of dexamethason in the fasting arm of the trial - it increases appetite, so makes se…

My wife is Stage 3, ++- (43 yo) and half way through the taxol phase of an ACT regimen; she is progressing well but I know she has the discipline to do a fasting diet if we thought it would help. Any thoughts on starting this mid-way through the treatment?

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#100

Post by eperfa »

BillyTheKing wrote: post #56
eperfa wrote: post #17

Looks like this study was initiated/sponsored by this company, specifically testing the effectiveness on what they call Fasting Mimicking Diet. https://l-nutra.com/pages/fasting-mimicking-diet If I understand correctly this is a low-calorie diet, which is easier to follow than a strict water-only diet, but they claim it is equally effective. They recommend it also for healthy individuals, 5 days a month. Does anyone…

I do actually, did it twice this year one week in January and then again during lockdown during the last week of March I think. I heard about it from the guy who came up with it, he wrote a book about the merits of a Mediterranean plant-based diet (with the occasional fish, but no meat) that resonated quite well with me, since it's easy to implement and also really delicious - I mean there isn't really all that much…

Thanks for sharing!
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