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How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled

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Re: How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled

#91

Post by hinkley »

Jarwain wrote: post #57
zamadatix wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not as optimistic spreading plastics all over the ground to drive on is going to lead to less plastics escaping into the environment vs putting them in a landfill and covering them.

I think y'all are thinking on different scales of "plastic escaping". One scale being large plastics like bags or packing materials which could conceivably be blown away from a landfill or otherwise just left to rot. The other scale being microplastics leaking into the ground & our groundwater. I'm not really sure whether the asphalt thing helps with microplastics

It does not. We were just talking the other day about the particulate pollution from asphalt. If it’s made of plastic, then the dust is micro plastic.

Re: How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled

#92

Post by liability »

Alex3917 wrote: post #58
bit_logic wrote: post #44

The whole recycling scam makes me upset. For decades the message was to recycle for the environment. But it was all just shipped to China and then dumped into the oceans. It actually would've been better if it went to landfills, at least then it's safely contained. Another lie was that we're running out of landfill space, there's so much land out there. Like most environmental issues, the focus should've been on prod…

> For decades the message was to recycle for the environment. The message is and has been "reduce, reuse, recycle." Recycling has been sold from the very beginning as being the option of last resort.

The mantra should have included "... in that order!"

Re: How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled

#93

Post by nilram »

Alex3917 wrote: post #58
bit_logic wrote: post #44

The whole recycling scam makes me upset. For decades the message was to recycle for the environment. But it was all just shipped to China and then dumped into the oceans. It actually would've been better if it went to landfills, at least then it's safely contained. Another lie was that we're running out of landfill space, there's so much land out there. Like most environmental issues, the focus should've been on prod…

> For decades the message was to recycle for the environment. The message is and has been "reduce, reuse, recycle." Recycling has been sold from the very beginning as being the option of last resort.

“Reduce, reuse” is part of the old saying but it was never heard, because it was never advertised. The entities that could afford advertising, or afford lobbying for it, have more riding on the recycle piece of that—-because reduce and reuse doesn’t pay their bills. Or their salaries and bonuses.

Re: How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled

#94

Post by liability »

0xdde wrote: post #75
Alex3917 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For decades the message was to recycle for the environment. The message is and has been "reduce, reuse, recycle." Recycling has been sold from the very beginning as being the option of last resort.

> Recycling has been sold from the very beginning as being the option of last resort. Maybe in the most literal reading of that slogan, but a claim like this could really use some substantiation.

That ordering is a key part of the waste hierarchy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waste_hierarchy

Re: How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled

#95

Post by toast0 »

Alex3917 wrote: post #58
bit_logic wrote: post #44

The whole recycling scam makes me upset. For decades the message was to recycle for the environment. But it was all just shipped to China and then dumped into the oceans. It actually would've been better if it went to landfills, at least then it's safely contained. Another lie was that we're running out of landfill space, there's so much land out there. Like most environmental issues, the focus should've been on prod…

> For decades the message was to recycle for the environment. The message is and has been "reduce, reuse, recycle." Recycling has been sold from the very beginning as being the option of last resort.

I recall the message in the catchy jingle as "recycle, reduce, reuse"

Realistically, it probably makes sense to reuse plastic waste as fuel, if it's not economical to recycle it. But burning plastic is frowned upon.

Re: How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled

#96

Post by joe_the_user »

schoen wrote: post #8
x87678r wrote: post #4

I can't remember where I read it but there was the view that recycling allows people to think they're environmentally responsible when they aren't. eg the typical family has multiple cars, lives in a big suburban house, has heating/ac buys loads of stuff but recycles their cardboard/glass so thinks their environmental impact is small.

Every time I took a German course, my textbook had a section something like "was machen Sie für die Umwelt?" ('what do you do for the environment?'), and the first example answer in dialogues was always "Müll trennen" (sorting kinds of trash for recycling). It was amazing what a cultural force this habit seems to have for many Germans. I still remember that one of the textbooks even started an answer with "natürlich…

"what do you do for the environment?"

This is a big part of the appeal and the problem. Recycling promised individual solutions to what is a collective problem: the misuse of resources.

Re: How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled

#97

Post by liability »

pydry wrote: post #63
barrkel wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moral self-licensing. I think a lot of the Green movement has the trappings of a religion, with shame and guilt used as motivators, and expensive rituals like trash sorting used to evidence your membership of the group. I want to pay someone else to sort my trash. In fact, I want the cost of sorting my trash embedded in the costs of the goods I buy, so I - and in particular, my neighbours - have no motivation to burn…

>Moral self-licensing. I think a lot of the Green movement has the trappings of a religion, with shame and guilt used as motivators, and expensive rituals like trash sorting used to evidence your membership of the group. Guilting individuals for not recycling was a corporate PR response to getting heat for the byproducts of their businesses littering the streets. This started back when plastic packaging was first int…

At least shaming people for littering mostly worked. Maybe it was misdirected due to corporate interests, but there is definitely a lot less trash on the ground now...

Re: How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled

#98

Post by nkingsy »

spodek wrote: post #71
bit_logic wrote: post #44

The whole recycling scam makes me upset. For decades the message was to recycle for the environment. But it was all just shipped to China and then dumped into the oceans. It actually would've been better if it went to landfills, at least then it's safely contained. Another lie was that we're running out of landfill space, there's so much land out there. Like most environmental issues, the focus should've been on prod…

> the focus should've been on producers not consumers on producers AND consumers. They're not exclusive. Producers have deceived, but consumers have been all too happy to suspend skepticism when buying things once the producer puts the word "recycle" on it somewhere. Consumers overwhelmingly skip the reduce part. Everyone I talk to about it, when they drop their defenses, says somewhere inside they knew they were par…

Maybe make some videos or something. My tiny California trash can is full to the brim every week, not for lack of trying.

I’m fairly sure I’m in the top 10% of giving a f in my country. Culture has huge impact so I don’t want to discourage individual action, but this won’t change until conservation becomes the default.

Re: How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled

#99

Post by germinalphrase »

spodek wrote: post #71
bit_logic wrote: post #44

The whole recycling scam makes me upset. For decades the message was to recycle for the environment. But it was all just shipped to China and then dumped into the oceans. It actually would've been better if it went to landfills, at least then it's safely contained. Another lie was that we're running out of landfill space, there's so much land out there. Like most environmental issues, the focus should've been on prod…

> the focus should've been on producers not consumers on producers AND consumers. They're not exclusive. Producers have deceived, but consumers have been all too happy to suspend skepticism when buying things once the producer puts the word "recycle" on it somewhere. Consumers overwhelmingly skip the reduce part. Everyone I talk to about it, when they drop their defenses, says somewhere inside they knew they were par…

Are you able to purchase, for instance, liquid dairy products without packaging? Have you had to cut out whole categories of food?

Re: How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled

#100

Post by dragonwriter »

germinalphrase wrote: post #99
spodek wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the focus should've been on producers not consumers on producers AND consumers. They're not exclusive. Producers have deceived, but consumers have been all too happy to suspend skepticism when buying things once the producer puts the word "recycle" on it somewhere. Consumers overwhelmingly skip the reduce part. Everyone I talk to about it, when they drop their defenses, says somewhere inside they knew they were par…

Are you able to purchase, for instance, liquid dairy products without packaging? Have you had to cut out whole categories of food?

> Are you able to purchase, for instance, liquid dairy products without packaging?

You can purchase them with non-plastic packaging (glass particularly; cardboard cartons use plastic liners.)

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