Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life • Hacker News Board

Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life

#91

Post by dbcurtis » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 4:24 PM UTC

bsanr2 wrote: post #79

dbcurtis wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That argument is a lot harder to sell since the Korea and Viet Nam wars. Not that I disagree with you. China does need to be reigned in, and we should have started years ago. But the leadership of the USA was mostly of draftable age during the Viet Nam war, or, like me, did their grade school homework in front of the TV news with Walter Cronkite reading the daily body count.

But the same generation was in power when we launched our twenty-year War on Terror, and the comparisons to Vietnam that started popping up a decade and a half ago didn't manifest in any sort of wariness to move forward and keep moving forward with our attempted "regime change." If anything, it's that which has changed our willingness to step forward militarily. The conclusion is that we spent our war capital on friv…

The war on terror was not about containing communism. It could not be labeled and dismissed as “anti-communist hysteria”

Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life

#92

Post by ogogmad » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 4:26 PM UTC

lehi wrote: post #75

The circumstances of Britain's original forced takeover and colonization of Hong Kong in the Opium Wars are the greater evil to me. Righting that wrong after so long was always going to be painful. By analogy: a violent drug-dealer shoots you, robs you, and then kidnaps your child at gunpoint. Years later, you manage to have the child returned, but in the interim they have been taught by their captor to hate you and…

The people of Hong Kong aren't to blame for the original injustice, so why are they the ones being victimised?

Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life

#93

Post by PakG1 » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 4:27 PM UTC

endori97 wrote: post #40

zdragnar wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering China's relationship with Taiwan, I would say yes, we absolutely knew that China would not allow a Chinese territory to be outside of thr CCP's control indefinitely. If anything, I am surprised it took them this long to decide the rest of the world would simply watch and do nothing of importance about it.

>I am surprised it took them this long They weren't going to make big moves until they had built up their navy.

Their navy is nowhere yet ready to fight a real war. Look at analysis of their fleet. Two aircraft carriers with limited capacity. But any war would have home court advantage with long-range missile support from the coast. That's the difference maker. Power projection beyond China's coast is currently impossible with their navy, and if there were a concerted allied operation, China's Navy would be unlikely able to handle battles on multiple fronts. But nobody wants war, China is banking on that. Look at how the world did nothing about Russia annexing the Crimea. Nobody wants war.

Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life

#94

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 4:28 PM UTC

[deleted]

Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life

#95

Post by kubanczyk » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 4:30 PM UTC

kingkawn wrote: post #15

abellerose wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money & power are greater than protesting/democracy is what people are waking up to. It's been that way since forever but a lot of dogma keeps people docile to the idea that change is made from the "people" instead of a few elect individuals by birth with circumstances of wealth and power.

If the broad population decides you’re done; you’re done. Doesn’t matter what wealth or power you think you’ve got.

This may be true in a minor bubble. The population can only decide things if enabled by quite a unwieldy and brittle scaffolding (separation of powers, free elections, free speech).

In a general case, as long as the living conditions don't get some sudden slump (i.e. if the frog is being boiled slowly) all limits are off for a ruler/dictator.

Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life

#96

Post by claydavisss » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 4:30 PM UTC

baybal2 wrote: post #33

AYBABTME wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which?

1. US Philippines Defence Treaty, USA allegedly refused to honor it when Philippines demanded USA assist clearing Mischief Reef, multiple times, and under multiple administrations. 2. Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security Between the United States and Japan, refused to acknowledge Chinese hostility against Japanese controlled island. 3. Mutual Defense Treaty Between the United States and the Republic of Korea, Ko…

Not even John Bolton would advocate starting WW3 for any of the trivialities you cite

Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life

#97

Post by magicsmoke » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 4:31 PM UTC

rado wrote: post #25

This "way of life" was unsustainable anyway, because of the property prices and the de facto feudal system with the tycoons on top. You can rage at the red flag all you want, but ideology has nothing to do with it. HK life was almost unbearable before all this.

HK has both the worst parts of a democracy and autocracy. It's got 35/70 seats in the legislative council made up of undemocratically appointed business interests that vote to preserve their profits at the expense of HK's inhabitants. Meanwhile, the handover treaty ties the hands of any autocrat that tries to reform the city's governance to better enable wealth redistribution from its finance firms. None of the representativeness of a real democracy but all the red tape of one. All the turmoil over this past decade's been over which side of the hill HK will start sliding down, democracy or autocracy. But given that the PRC will never let HK slide towards democracy now, maybe it's best they slide towards autocracy as fast as possible. Tear up the democratic red tape protecting corrupt business interests and start redistributing its wealth to the people via autocratic means.

Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life

#98

Post by jimmaswell » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 4:31 PM UTC

PakG1 wrote: post #68

yodsanklai wrote: post #42

Does anyone here have an informed opinion on what will happen to Taiwan?

Did an MBA in Hong Kong, just finished earlier this year. A lot of my classmates are mainland Chinese. Bunch of them would regularly talk with each other and say that military action was the only way to resolve the situation, China needs to send its military to Taiwan and overrun the Taiwanese defenses quickly. Baffles my mind that they're so ready to default to war. Some other mainland Chinese people are more nuance…

Maybe now is the time to rip off the bandaid and break trade with China while we're already in a recession anyway.

Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life

#99

Post by martythemaniak » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 4:32 PM UTC

yodsanklai wrote: post #42

Does anyone here have an informed opinion on what will happen to Taiwan?

Well, no one can tell because the future hasn't happened yet. Certainly the Chinese (both gov and people) consider Taiwan to be a temporarily out of control province that must be brought back under control. They are just waiting for the most opportune time.

Taiwanese themselves are more split on the question of independence. People's opinions and moods change over time as well.

Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life

#100

Post by xoxoy » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 4:33 PM UTC

I suspect we will see China attempt to invade Taiwan sooner rather than later now.

In particular I’ve suspected for awhile that China desperately wants to “own” Taiwan Semiconductor ($TSM) since they’ve been trying to build up their own domestic chip business for awhile and $TSM is the gold standard in chip manufacturing.